Question & Answer Board

 Q2758 Adlake 'The Adams'  What type of globe retainer did the Adlake 'The Adams' No. 11, drop in fount, use?? It has the two metal straps attached to the hood. I have seen the flat retainer and the cupped retainer both used. The cupped retainer has no pins to lock in but it seems out of place for this early model as there is no proper attachment for the metal straps unless one jimmies them over the two fins, not really correct. Thank you  Posted Wednesday, May 21, 2014 by Keith   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hello, My N&W Adams has the cupped retainer held in place by two straps bent around the retainer cross members. I have seen numerous lanterns configured like his and I feel like it is correct as most lanterns I have seen like this are dirty and untouched. GaryP Posted Thursday, May 22, 2014 by GaryP

A. The two straps bend over the "fins". That's how the retainer was originally installed. One of the pitfalls of this design is that if someone removes and re-inserts the retainer a number of times, the ends of the straps might break off from repeated bending. There is a flat piece that first fits over the straps and goes all the way to where the straps attach to the lid, then the spring is put in with the smallest loop at the top, and finally the retainer goes in and is held in place by bending the two straps over the fins or cross members. It might not seem correct to you, but it is correct. You are correct in that there were no pins or other devices to hold the retainer in place. The retainer is almost identical to that used on the Reliable, with the exception of not having the part where the one used on the Reliable allows for the rivets to engage the retainer. I'd call the retainer on the Reliable and the manner it was kept in place an improvement over the earlier Adams lantern design. Posted Friday, May 23, 2014 by BobF

A. Thank you for clearing up the matter. Both were correct but the retainer Gary talks about is the most common. The finned and vented retainer without the two catches seems more rare on Adams models till Adlake made a further improvement for the Reliables. Yes,the straps break off at the bend with this type globe retainer. Good info that is not in the books. Thank you Keith Posted Friday, May 23, 2014 by Keith

 Q2755 Lantern Marking  Attached are photos of a late 1890's or early 1900's A&W bell-bottom that is marked C RY T L CO that I recently purchased in barn fresh condition from an antique shop in northern Illinois. Can anyone identify the marking? There was an IL traction line that operated between 1908-1913, Cairo Railway & Light Company, but I believe the lantern was made prior to that time period. Any help will be appreciated.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, May 11, 2014 by Albert   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Looking at the pix it says "C RY T E (E, probably as in "Electric") CO." rather than an 'L'.  Posted Sunday, May 11, 2014 by RJMc

A. Yes,I should have typed "E" instead "L". My mistake. I believe the "RY T E CO" marking stands for "Railway Traction & Electric Company" and that the lantern is from an interurban line that would have operated around 1900. The real mystery is the letter "C". Posted Monday, May 12, 2014 by JH

 Q2753 Lantern Info Needed  Hello, I'm curious about this lantern I found, and its markings. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 by JR   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Looks like you have a nice Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul & Pacific lantern. The clear globe lantern was the most common on the railroad and was carried by everyone from conductors and brakemen on the trains, to switch men in the freight yards and maintenance workers who repaired track and equipment. From the photo it looks like a short globe lantern, which was a lantern produced in the later part of the kerosene lantern production. If you look on the bottom you may see a single number followed by a - and two digit number i.e.: 3-47. This would mean it was made in the 3rd quarter of 1947. Some lanterns could be dated this way, some had the date on the top or no date at all. Hope this helps. SB Posted Wednesday, May 7, 2014 by SB

 Q2751 Lantern ID Needed  Don’t need a value just trying to see if this is a rare lamp .. Its an Adams and Westlake 'Adlake Reliable'… MRRR. Is this Mineral Range Railroad??? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 by DWP   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q2747 Locomotive Headlight?  I picked this up, but am unsure if it is a locomotive headlight or not. It is 'portable' in the sense it has a handle, but it very heavy. It has a hook on the back to hang it with two additional safety chains. It is about 28 in. tall and the glass is about 14 in. wide. The insides appear original. I don't see any name on it, but the rear bracket to hang it has SAF-E90 or something similar on it. Any help is appreciated! Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, April 15, 2014 by John   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This looks to be the kind of light the Europeans had sitting on their steam locomotive pilot decks. Each different country had a somewhat different style; sometimes they used only one, sometimes two, and sometimes also had a high-mounted or centered headlight also. The links show models with similar lights, if not identical, on German and French locos. Other places in the world followed European practices, which considerably widens where yours might have come from.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Wednesday, April 16, 2014 by RJMc

A. It's a French "fanal" or loco headlamp. They were used in pairs, attached to either side of the front of the locomotive, above the "buffers". As RJMc says, it may also have been used in a country which followed French railway practice, such as one of the former French colonies in Africa or South-East Asia. Posted Wednesday, April 16, 2014 by JAJ

A.  See Q1045 and Q2360 in the Archives which are about similar lamps from France. Is there room between the triangular shaped wire frame and the body of the lamp to slide a colored disc in between them? Some of these lamps were used on the tender of the locomtive and they put a red colored disc in when they did that. That wire frame would protect the glass lens and it might also have held the red disc in place. Posted Wednesday, April 16, 2014 by KM

A. I just got home from work and saw all of the excellent responses. Thanks so much! I looked at Q1045 and Q2360 and see the resemblance. After looking at RJMc's links I did an extensive search on some of those locomotives, and found an exact match on the French Mikado locomotive of 1914. In response to KM's question about space in between the protective bars and the glass, yes there is room there to slide a colored lens down inside. That might explain why the protective bars have a shape to them-it looks like a lens slightly smaller would fit in there held by the pinched-in bars. Anyways, thanks again to all, and here is the link to the French locomotive--you might have to blow it up a bit. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, April 16, 2014 by John

A.  E 90 might be the locomotive number. The SNCF used a class system for numberinng their steam locos which included the wheel arangement, the letter to designate the group of locos bought at the same time and the individual number. They had E class locos in 2-8-2 wheel arrangement, 2-8-0, and 4-6-2 arrangement. From what I can see most of the E locos were 4-6-2's. Unlike the American system the French system for wheel arrangemnets only counts the wheels on one side of the locomtive so a Mikado with a 2-8-2 in France is a 1-4-1, a Consolidation 2-8-0 is a 1-4-0, a Pacific 4-6-2 is a 2-3-1. I could find quite a few references and photos of Pacifics numbered 231 E 20 up through 231 E 100+, but I could not find any of those numbered in the nineties. The link shows two locos, 231 E 22 and 232 U 1 which are at the French National Railway Museum. Both of them have lights which look like yours.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, April 16, 2014 by KM

 Q2743 Lamp ID Needed  We just recently receive an old railroad lamp donation for our future museum in Puerto Rico and need help identifying it. Any help will be welcome, Thanks!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, April 8, 2014 by JC   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Thank you very much for the information. I found that they were made from 1938 to 1950 by different companies with different classes. I will start my research in the company who made this one. Thanks again! you guys are great. Link 1  Posted Tuesday, April 8, 2014 by juliocolon1

A.  This is not a railroad lantern, it is a buggy or wagon lantern. And it might not be very old, Dietz made lanterns similar to this up into the 1950's or 60's. See the link for photos of a Dietz Little Wizard Wagon lantern. My grandparents lived in Geauga County, OH and there is a large Amish community there. When we visited we saw lanterns like this on the Amish horse drawn buggies up into the 1960's. Eventually state laws forced them to update their lighting to protect them from the high speed auto traffic.  Link 1  Posted Tuesday, April 8, 2014 by KM

 Q2742 Lamp ID Needed  I recently found a stash of interesting old railroad lanterns at the Salvation Army, and I brought home the one with the most interesting markings. After looking around online, I haven't been able to find any pictures of a lantern quite like it, so I was hoping you might be able to give me a little more information about it. It has a label that's been painted over, and I can't make out anything useful. There's a B, and maybe a 5... I can't find any other manufacturers marks. The handwritten lettering around the top reads L.C. No. 21B and C.PWI.BG,SBT. From that, I've come up with a theory that it might be a British-made lantern used on the Indian Railway, but that's a guess. (PWI being Permanent Way Inspector, LC being level crossing--that's in one of their manuals, but not sure how common that lingo is.) There are two little wooden handles, painted red and green, that slide curved, colored glass panels across the front. The innards and base are missing, so no actual lamp, just the body. It's fairly rusty, but all the moving parts work. Someone recently replaced the front glass with new, and secured it with a strip of crimped metal. So any info on what it was used for, and by whom, and when, and where it was made, would be greatly appreciated! Or any leads would be great. Thank you so much!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Tuesday, April 8, 2014 by LB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. I think that your detective work is generally correct. This type of lamp was used for lighting and hand-signalling purposes in Britain, the colonies and other countries which used British railway practice. In most cases the central drum, fitted with red, green and clear aspects, is turned by twisting the top handle, but two British railway companies, the Great Eastern and, to a lesser extent the Great Central, used a design, similar to your example, where the aspects are changed by moving side handles. The other area where this arrangement was used was India and, interestingly, lamps of the same type as your's appear fairly frequently on Ebay, the sellers usually being from India. I suspect that your lamp was actually made in India, where there has always been a thriving sheet-metal industry. The terms "Permanent Way Inspector" (Track Inspector) and "Level Crossing" (Grade Crossing) are the normal terms used on British and Indian railways.  Posted Thursday, April 10, 2014 by JAJ

 Q2741 Loco Headlight Info Needed  What ever I can find out about this locomotive head light will be much appreciated. The only markings that I can find saying Chicago & Syracuse. I think it could be made by the Steam Gauge & Lantern Co. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, April 7, 2014 by RHB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. In "Lanterns That Lit Our World" (book one) on page 120 Anthony Hobson shows some Dietz trolley and locomotive headlights. The No.560 streetcar light looks just like yours, but Hobson says it was only 8" or 10" high. He also notes that the Dietz headlights came in many sizes with 14",16",18",20" or 23" lenses. While Dietz was located in Syracuse they also maintained a Chicago office. Steam Gauge was located In Rochester until 1888 when they had a catastrophic fire in their plant. They relocated to Syracuse and Dietz bought them out in 1897(after the disastrous fire destroyed the Dietz plant in NYC). I have also seen an ad from 1892 that lists Steam Gauge in Syracuse and Chicago. Is there any marking on the burner or the wick knob? If it is a Plume and Atwood you may be able to date that by the style of the wick knob. Remember that he burner may have been updated at some point in the life of this lamp. Dietz used some of Steam Gauge's patterns after they bought out the company in 1897 so this could resemble a Steam Gauge lamp or it may be a Dietz original. Hobson does not show any Steam Gauge headlights to compare it to.  Posted Monday, April 7, 2014 by KM

A.  See Q2076 in the Archives for information on a Star or Glazier oli fired headlight. Posted Wednesday, April 9, 2014 by KM

A. The book Lake Shore Electric Railway Story by Harwood and Korach has 5 or 6 clear photos showing headlights very similar to this in use in Ohio on LSE and its predecessors between about 1900 and 1910. In these pix it is clear the headlights were quite large, probably two or three feet high, consistent with the much larger lens sizes listed above. It is likely similar practices occurred on many trolley lines. The way your headlight is hung with hooks over a metal strap was also characteristic of interurban and streetcar use, where the headlights were portable and often added and removed, sometimes every day, possibly only added for night running and otherwise not used, and often moved from one end of the car to the other. The strap hanging method was practical for the interurbans because the car front had a broad flat surface to hang them against, unlike most steam locomotive front ends where a shelf had to be installed for a headlight to sit on. The LSE pix show them on both passenger trolleys and work equipment (see link.)  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, April 9, 2014 by RJMc

A. I mentioned above that I expected to see other early interurbans or trolley operations using similar headlights to this; but on looking, I didn't find any.....all the other interurban electric lines I have checked so far were using either nothing, or 'ashcan' style arc or bulb type headlights. However the Baltimore and Annapolis Short Line was steam-powered until 1906 (when it was electrified), and used very similar headlights to yours on their steam engines. See the link for one example; others are in the book "Every Hour on the Hour" about the WB&A electric railroad, successor to the Short Line. Link 1  Posted Friday, April 18, 2014 by RJMc

 Q2740 Dietz Vesta Questions  Do you know why Dietz Vesta's bail wire has an indentation? Some say it is for the thumb during signaling, others for a wall hook. Also do you know why the wire cage at the bottom of the Vesta is off center, one leg is short the other side long? Many Thanks!  Posted Saturday, April 5, 2014 by DB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. It's for the thumb. Can't be for hanging as its not centered and it's also indented the wrong way for hanging. Posted Saturday, April 5, 2014 by JL

 Q2739 Switch Lamp Wiring  I recently purchased a pair of A&W SW-35 switch lamps. Upon reading page 90 of THE ENCYCLOPEDIA it seems these lamps had a sensor that would shut the lamp off during daylight hours to conserve the battery...can anyone look at the picture and tell me where the 3 wires coming from the sensor should be hooked? There is a white , red, and black wire....the 2 wires already attached come from the positive and negative on the battery..I appreciate any help...thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, April 4, 2014 by JM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Thanks for all the tips...I will give them a try and let you guys know what happens...thanks Posted Sunday, April 6, 2014 by jerry

A. Hi JM,Regardless if this other component is a light sensor or a resistor-which I believe it is-both items would be broke thru one of the 2 leads coming from the battery source.Just take one of the leads off the lamp socket post,either one OK,connect it to one of the leads from the component,and take the other wire from the component and re-connect it to the lamp socket terminal.In other words,in series with one of the lamp battery feed wires.If that mystery component is bad or electrically open,and the lamp won't light,its either that component or a bad bulb.Do you follow my tips ? DJB Sig.Dep't retired. Posted Sunday, April 6, 2014 by DJB

A. Hello JM and DJB: DJB's comments on the wires from the component refer to the red and black wires. The white wire from the component (likely a sensor, since it does have three wires) needs to be connected to the second wire feeding the bulb, to provide the second side of the circuit powering the sensor itself. I do not know if this type of three-lead photocell sensor will work on DC; they are more usually seen on AC circuits such as household stuff. If this sensor is/was set up for DC, polarity may be important. Also, based on household experience with my switchlight in the front yard, these sensors are among the first things to fail (other than the bulbs themselves) and they may fail open (bulb never lights) or shorted (bulb always lights.) And if you got the sensor with the light, with the leads cut off like that, its probably because the sensor failed and somebody just bypassed it to leave the lamp always lit. If you refit the lamp to run on household current (120 AC) anyway, the photo sensors are commonly available at the home repair stores for a few bucks, and come with a circuit diagram, but most of those will not intended for DC and the lower voltages usually used on switchlights. Also you will likely have to change the bulb socket if you want to use house current.  Posted Sunday, April 6, 2014 by RJMc

A. After reading RJMc's reply,I had to look really hard to see the third wire which was black and in the shaded area of the pix.Its hard to say if the light sensor was used on AC or DC but the vast majority of Railroad signal equipment used DC.Adding to what he said,try hooking the white wire to the left post of the lamp socket,along with the existing incoming wire and remove the existing wire off the right post of the lamp socket,connect it to the black wire of the sensor and take the red wire from the sensor and connect it back onto the right post of the lamp socket. This may or may not work but give it a try.The RR may have disconnected the sensor to burn the lamp continuously for some reason.As for the bulb,you can readily find a bayonet- based 120 volt bulb commonly used in sewing machine lights,which will fit exactly and allow you to use the original heavy-duty socket.It will light your lamp nicely and save you considerable work and some expense.I do agree with RJMc when he said that the sensor may be faulty but give it a try.If you still need to buy a new 120 v light sensor,then the bulb I mentioned will work with the same socket.Be sure to match the bulb voltages to whatever incoming voltage you choose to use.I have those sewing machine bulbs in a couple of my former battery operated lamps and they work well.DJB Posted Sunday, April 6, 2014 by DJB

A. That hint about using 120V sewing machine bulbs is a very good one--I had never run across that type of bulb before. Another 'gotcha' in wiring these things: those nuts and studs on the socket connections may LOOK like 1/4" x 20 (standard coarse thread) or 1/4" x 28 (standard fine thread) but they are probably 1/4" x 24, which happens to be an AAR standard thread used by almost nobody else in US industry today....and regular nuts will not work on those studs. The RR's standardized on 1/4 x 24 around 1920 or so, when it was more commonly used, and have used it ever since for electrical studs in all kinds of RR applications. I first ran into the thread issue when trying to rewire a locomotive Mars light for example.  Posted Sunday, April 6, 2014 by RJMc

A. I did find out that the sensor was mentioned in an adlake bulletin and it was called "SOLARITE"...don't know if this jogs anyone's memory or not...I just got a battery in so will be trying all of the suggestions given here soon. Posted Tuesday, April 15, 2014 by jerry

A. Hi Jerry, Did that light sensor you refer to from the Adlake bulletin,mention the operating voltage and if AC or DC ? I would guess it required a voltage below 24 volts because railroad's were also cautious about shock hazards not only to the trainmen but to the signal maintenance people and the public to a lesser extent.Almost all of their signal equipment was backed up by standby batteries and rectifiers and that's why I suspect it was low voltage.If these lamps were in a yard they were probably fed by underground cable to a central power supply but if out in an obscure location,probably battery powered. A good source of DC low voltage for testing or operating these lamps and old signal equipment is right out in your garage,on the shelf,in the form of your portable automobile battery charger...they usually provide either 6 or 12 volts DC and up to 30 amps.Plenty for your purposes,so a battery is really unnecessary. DJB Posted Wednesday, April 16, 2014 by DJB

A. I finally got around to trying to hookup the wiring...DJB your diagram worked...thank you so much...unfortunately only worked on one lamp so I took the sensor from the working one and tried it on the second and it worked so I assume the sensor is bad...have checked several parts sources but no one seems to have any idea as to where to get a replacement...maybe some of you electrical experts out there can help...was wondering if I could get a photocell sensor for 12 volts with 3 wires...would it work??? is it possible to repair the old sensor? Again any help is appreciated...Jerry Posted Thursday, April 17, 2014 by jerry

A. Great to hear you have things working (some of them, anyway!) I doubt you would have any success attempting to repair the old sensor, but 12 VDC is now a very common voltage for landscape lights -- and this stuff is being sold in all the 'big box' stores. Putting 'Low voltage photocell switch' in my favorite online shopper generated about 150 hits. Most wanted in the range of $25 for one switch, but most of those are rated to switch many more than just one bulb.....There seem to be some intended for outdoor use (even) down in the $16 range, so it will pay to shop around. There are even some direct-import modules down in the $5 range, if you want to do more of your own packaging.  Posted Friday, April 18, 2014 by RJMc

A. Hello Jerry, Are these lamps going to be used outside on a regular basis and mounted somewhere ? If so, I would change them over to the 120 v sewing machine bulbs I mentioned earlier and then buy a common dusk to dawn light control module for regular 120 volt use.I see them at the big box stores for under 10.00 and they will control up to 250 watts or more.So, you could equip an outlet box,mount the control in one of its knockouts and plug both lamps into it.The regular dusk to dawn control mounts in any threaded or unthreaded 1/2 inch knockout or opening.You will also find them sometimes combined with a motion sensor control,but they come both ways if you look a bit.You can,as RJMc says,find low voltage photocell controls,but why mess with low voltage controls,a battery and/or a transformer ? Going with 120 volt parts means you can bring them in the house in the winter time and just plug them in. Posted Friday, April 18, 2014 by DJB

A. Thanks guys for the info...I am trying to keep them as original as possible so I think I will go to the big box store and get a dawn to dusk sensor and see if I can't drill out the old sensor and install the new one inside that housing...let you know how it turns out. Posted Friday, April 18, 2014 by jerry

A. DJB...I did contact adlake and they were NO HELP AT ALL...said that stuff was sold off in the 70's and referred me to Larry Krise who knew nothing about it either. Posted Saturday, April 19, 2014 by jerry

A. Hi again,I applaud your decision to keep the lamps original.That being said,most people don't realize that Adlake is also in the business of making electrical controls such as relays and they have produced these components for many years.I wouldn't be surprised if you wrote or emailed them and found that they still had original light sensors available.These sensors would have been used by various industries so they may still have some in stock or could give you the original source and part number if they actually purchased them from an outside supplier.Nothing ventured,nothing gained.DJB Posted Saturday, April 19, 2014 by DJB

 Q2737 Restored Lamp --#2701 Follow-Up  Hello everyone...Just finished restoration of my Adams and Westlake 1166 1/2 'WINGED' switch lamp. Sorry Red Beard but when I tried cleaning, it didn’t clean up to my liking!!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, March 30, 2014 by JM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Looks really good! ..Please send in several MORE photos showing how it comes apart; that is a very interesting piece. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Sunday, March 30, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. It will be on ebay at 9 pm est this evening where I have detailed pictures...I don't know how to put the link to it here but auction is titled A&W 1166 1/2 winged lantern. Posted Sunday, March 30, 2014 by jerry

A. can refer to question 2701 to see the unrestored version. Posted Sunday, March 30, 2014 by jerry

A. Jerry, what paint did you use? That yellow & green look pretty accurate. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Sunday, March 30, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Jerry, regarding that oil pot that has to be taken out through the bottom of the lamp: Couple of ideas; It may have started out with a removeable fount and have been retro fitted with the larger round one for use out in some more remote area so the lamp tender didn't have to make his rounds as often. Labor was cheap back then too, the railroad may have wanted a large capacity pot and didn't care about the labor cost for the occasional removal vs. economy of having to fill less often. - or - Some post-railroad owner may have needed a pot and that's all he could find so he modified the lamp. Remember, before eBay, lamp parts were very hard to find. Back in the '70s I tried to cast my own lenses out of hobby resin as I could find none for sale. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Sunday, March 30, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. The paint I used on the day targets is: YELLOW...Valspar gloss gold abundance # 85010 GREEN... Rustoleum spruce green # 7737 Got both from Lowe's. Posted Monday, March 31, 2014 by jerry

A. You are not supposed to list items for sale on this site - either directly or through ebay Posted Tuesday, April 1, 2014 by BK

A. Someone has bid 19 times on it...lol.....Nothing like bidding once and only the max amount your willing to pay for it. Posted Thursday, April 3, 2014 by JL

A. Excellent detail work! Much better than the factory. In the future you might also want to try researching the engine block spray paint good to about 600 degrees F by VHT and Dupli-Color. Don't use the 2000 degree F paint. They are more UV resistant, last longer, stand up the the heat and the colors available match a lot of the colors railroads used. Industry regardless of type usually all used the same colors because of Government regulations and they adhere to metal surfaces better. Thank you KEITH Posted Saturday, May 24, 2014 by Keith

 Q2735 Mar Signal Light  I am wondering if anyone can tell me anything about this, if it was from a train etc. I have attached photos and also have a video of it in action [see link]. I know nothing about it other than what it says on the motor. Thanks!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, March 28, 2014 by CS  Link 1     Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  This light was probably used on cabooses or the rear car of a passenger train. There may have been a bracket that allowed it to hang over a railing that is missing from it now. The label on the motor in it looks more recent, it has orange printing on it. Mars Signal Light Co. was founded by a Chicago firefighter named Jerry Kennelly in the 1930's. He had financial support from Frank Mars and his wife Ethel, of Mars Candy Co. So the origin of "The Light From Mars" is related to the candy company. Kennelly noticed that when he drove fire trucks if he moved the cowl mounted spotlights it got the oncoming drivers attention. He developed mechanical motor driven lights that accomplished this. During development Frank Mars along with his mechanical folks had some of the parts made at the candy company. The link is from Trainweb, and has a short history of Mars Signal Light and Pyle National. Pyle National also made moving lights for railroad use under the name Gyralite. Mars Signal Light is still in business and was bought out by Trippe Light Co., they are now known as Tri Light Mars. They still sell warning lights for emergency vehicles that use the figure 8 pattern. Link 1  Posted Saturday, March 29, 2014 by KM

A. This style of single-light Mars light was often hung on the end doors of Budd Rail Diesel Cars (RDC's). Another possibility was it was set into the nose of a diesel to provide warning to oncoming trains if the train went into emergency braking. The link is a 15 minute video about the original introduction of RDC's; amount 10:55 into the video there are very clear views of a Western Pacific single RDC running as a train, with a Mars light hung on each end; the front one is almost certainly clear, for grade crossing warning, and the rear one is red. These are the older style, larger Mars lights, but I believe yours was probably used the same way. The yellow paint is a clue to where it was likely used; that particular yellow color looks to me like the way Via Rail Canada painted their RDC car ends. An additional clue to how this light was used will be the motor voltage; they were typically either 12 Volt DC (most often used on cabooses) or 32 VDC, 72 VDC, or possibly 110 VDC. What voltage is shown on the motor label? And the correct lamp bulb to be used in it is discussed in prior Q 978 here on the Q&A Board; it will be a PAR56 sealed beam lamp. You are missing the lamp retainer ring, which goes over the front face of the sealed-beam lamp and has two spring clips which go under the hooks to hold the lamp in place. Q 978 discusses several options for bulbs you could use in this light. Having a tightly focussed sealed beam bulb will make the flashing figure-8 effect even more striking.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, March 29, 2014 by RJMc

A. Thank you for all the information, I have posted a link below with more photos, the motor is a 12 volt. It does appear to be missing something in regards to the reflector which appears now to be a piece of cardboard with reflective sticky material like aluminum foil.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, March 30, 2014 by CS

A. The Links are to two pictures of a Rock Island Rail Diesel Car running as a train, towing a regular coach as a trailer. In the first link pic, there is one of these Mars lights on the front door of the RDC, with a clear lens, no doubt as extra grade crossing warning protection. And on the back of the coach, in the second link pic, there is one of this same model of light but with a red lens (as with the yellow light in the question), as marker protection. We still have not figured out where the yellow light may have been used; comments welcome from anyone who may have seen these around the Twin Cites area, where this one was found. The yellow light appears to have been permanently mounted with a conduit fitting on the back, but it is definitely a 12 VDC unit. Some comments have indicated some RR's may have used 12 VDC units on locomotives, using a dropping resistor from the higher typical loco voltages, at least for the Mars light motor if not for the sealed beam lamp.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Thursday, April 24, 2014 by RJMc

 Q2728 Lantern/Lamp ID Needed  I have a lantern with the following letters embossed thereon: N.C.B.R.R. Can you identify the railway name? There is no date I can see. Is there a particular name for this kind of lantern? I'm not a railroadiana collector; I am an automobilia collector. Thank you for your help.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 by NS   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This looks pretty close but not quite identical to a #73 Adlake switch lamp. See Link 1 which is a page from a 1907 Adams&Westlake catalog that is available here in the Railroadiana Library. And NCB RR is probably Nevada Copper Belt Railroad which was around from 1910 until 1947. On page 79 of "The Illustrated Encyclopedia Of Railroad Lighting, Volume Two-The Railroad Signal Lamp" the number 73 is shown and there is a photo of one that is also marked N.C.B.R.R. That lamp may have a higher top on it than yours and it has two green and two red lenses that are 4.5 inches in diameter. What does the brass oval tag which is attached to your lamp say? It may have patent numbers on it which are issued to Adlake. Does it have the four prong cast iron base which is used on older switch lamps? As switch lamps go, this is a very nice example of a fairly rare older lamp from a well known but small railroad. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 by KM

A. Thank you for your valuable information. Looking at the pics in Link 1, my lantern is very similar to No 73 except the stack is slightly shorter and all the lenses are 4 1/4" recessed similar as in No 63. The brass plate says: The Adams & Westlake Company Makers Chicago . I can find no numbers anywhere.The base is same as No 73. Weight about 8 lbs. Posted Thursday, March 20, 2014 by NES

A. I just noticed something else: Although my lantern appears similar to No 73, it has a sliding door as seen on No 206. Posted Thursday, March 20, 2014 by NES

A.  Sorry that link didn't work, just search "Holabird Kagin Americana Nevada Copperbelt Railroad Signal Lantern" and it should be the first hit. That lamp was restored by someone and it looks like they repainted it, replaced the bail with a brass wire instead of the wooden handle, and polished up the retaining rings that hold the lenses in.  Posted Thursday, March 20, 2014 by KM

A.  This link shows another NCB switch lantern that was sold in 2012. It also has the higher chimney and NOTE it is painted RED like yours is. Most railroads used black paint on these, does anyone know if the MCB used or specified red paint? Whatever you do don't mess with the paint on this until you find out, and in my opinion it looks great the way it is anyway.  Link 1  Posted Thursday, March 20, 2014 by KM

 Q2727 Help in Identifying Lantern  I recently acquired a lantern that I have been trying to identify. Based on what I've been able to find online, I think it might be German, but it has no maker's marks or marks of any kind. I have found similar lanterns, but none with the same feature. It has a storage slot in the back for a red glass slide that can be placed in the front. This leads me to believe it is a railroad lantern. Would you say this is correct? Any information you can give me on this lantern would be greatly appreciated. Do you think the lantern might have had another colored slide that has since gone missing? Thank you in advance for your time.  [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 by GA   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. See Q1396 in the Archives which is about a similar lantern. Does your lamp have clear glass panels on the sides?  Posted Wednesday, March 19, 2014 by KM

A. It has clear glass on the sides, but only because I put them there. There was no glass in it at all when I got it, except for the red glass slide that stores in the back. A Dark Room Lantern seems to make sense, assuming the sides were not clear glass originally. Looks like I might have to cut some new glass. Thank for the info so far. Posted Thursday, March 20, 2014 by GA

A. Do a Bing or Google search of "WWII German lanterns" and you'll see very similar lanterns if not the exact one. However, all the German WWII lanterns that I've seen are all are marked with maker codes and inspection marks. Maybe earlier german lanterns went unmarked. I don't know. Posted Thursday, March 20, 2014 by GL

A. My original thought was that is was a WWII era German lantern. I found similar ones, but none with the extra red glass slide or storage slot on the back for the slide, that this one has. Posted Friday, March 21, 2014 by GA

 Q2721 Can't Open Tank  I just bought a Dietz Improved Vulcan RR Lantern. This lantern has a patented wing lock burner and tank ( Dec 13, 1910). We can not figure out how to open the tank to fuel it. Does the burner twist off the tank ( it twists but does not come off) in a way we can't figure out? Or is there some other way to fill?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2014 by DLC   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Correction on the above information - the tank patent is Dec 13,10 and May 31,10. The burner/fount patent is July 26, 1904. When we try to side the wing lock to the right, the underlying support also slides with it, and it(underlying support) is too big to lift out of the opening. Something is wrong - there is no point to the wing lock if turning it does not make it possible to lift up...!Is something stuck? Any ideas?  Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2014 by LC

A. There is usually a gasket under the burner. Over time they harden and shrink around the burner so it longer lifts off easily and they can turn with the burner. If you pop off the burner from the tight gasket, you may have trouble reinstalling the burner in the shrunken, hardened gasket. You may have enlarge the gasket opening by shaving a bit of the material around the gasket hole with a utility knife to reinstall the burner. Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2014 by JFR

A. Spray the under lying gasket area with WD-40 or oil. Let it soak a few minutes then using some muscle pop the burner out. It will break loose from the old gasket. Posted Thursday, March 13, 2014 by GD

A. Thanks so much for the replies on this site. You gave us the nerve to oil, and then pry a bit harder than we may otherwise have done and presto! the burner came out. We cleaned up the hole a bit, oiled some more, and now it goes in and out really nicely. Thanks again! Posted Saturday, March 22, 2014 by LC

 Q2719 Lamp Info Needed  I have an Arlington Dressel N.J. USA lantern which I bought many years ago at an antique store. I was labeled by the seller as Canadian Pacific. Inside a hollow square post, which I assume was how it was affixed to the train, are the initials ME CENT. The lantern is about 19-20 inches tall. Has two red and two green lenses. It opens at the top and also where the wick is. It weighs about 15 pounds. It has a bail-type handle. Can you give me additional information as to the origin or use of this lantern from the above description? Thank-you. I appreciate any information that you can provide me.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, March 8, 2014 by BB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. What you have is a mainline switch stand lamp for the Maine Central Railroad. Posted Sunday, March 9, 2014 by DY

 Q2718 RR Headlight?  Can anyone tell me anything about the light in the picture?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, March 8, 2014 by JM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This is a kleg light used for stage lighting. Posted Saturday, March 8, 2014 by BK

 Q2716 Followup to Question 2701: Switch Lamp w/ Wings  I just began disassembly of the SWITCH LAMP WITH WINGS and discovered something very interesting...this lamp has a 48 ounce fount which takes up almost all of the space in the bottom of the lamp...the only way to remove the fount is to take the bottom out of the lamp...AMAZING !!!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, March 8, 2014 by JM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q2714 Lamp Info Needed  I just acquired these lamps. There about 13 inches tall, and the glass is about 5 inches. Just wanted to know what model it is and if you what there were used for. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Thursday, February 27, 2014 by Robby   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  They are tail lamps or marker lamps used on the end of the train. They look like they might be made by Adlake but I am not sure of that or of the model number. Can you take a photo of just the round tag which can be seen inside of the one lamp that shows all of those patent numbers or dates? After enlarging the photo and then expanding it more using Control+ I can see patent dates from 1907 to maybe 1915 but the resolution is not very good. I am wondering if those are all Adams & Westlake patents. Posted Thursday, February 27, 2014 by KM

A. Yes those are Adlake and old too! The legs holding the cap to the vent cone go down inside of the cone rather than being riveted to the outside of the cone. I'd guess those were made about a hundred years ago. -- Very close to or the same as the #168 lamp in LINK 1 below, which was offered with one or more lenses. -- Of interest is the adapter for the lens; fitting a larger lens to the lamp than it was originally made to take. Eastern roads liked this style and many were found on the Pennsy. Is the lamp marked with road initials?? Some streetcars used these as well. Very nice pieces. ---- .... Red Beard Link 1  Posted Thursday, February 27, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. There adlake made ad the last patented date is 1913, there is no railroad mark. Posted Saturday, March 1, 2014 by Robby

 Q2712 RR Signal Glass  I had read about a certain color of glass lens utilized for railroad service in the past, by the name of 'Kerosene Pink.' Unfortunately, I was unable to find any indication anywhere for what purpose this particular color served. I was wondering, please, if you might happen to know what Kerosene Pink in a lantern/signal signified? Thank you,  Posted Monday, February 24, 2014 by ID   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. ID: Please post as much information as you can about where you read about this color; it is one I have not heard of before. ...DJB?? any ideas?? ---- ....Red Beard Posted Tuesday, February 25, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. ID,Sorry but I have never heard of this term for a signal aspect/color.Like Red Beard suggests,tell us where you saw this term so we can put into a better context.DJB Posted Tuesday, February 25, 2014 by DJB

A. Kerosene Pink was in fact a lens color used by some railroads, but was very rare. Bright green (I think they called it Kelley Green) and purple were also not so common colors. The only way to know if you definitively have a KP lens would be to find one with a tag on it that said Kerosene Pink. I believe Kopp was the only manufacturer to have a KP lens. Keep hunting, they're out there. Link 1  Posted Friday, February 28, 2014 by Jeff Gorjans

A. Hi Jeff; I believe you. Because of its rarity, it would be helpful to post as much information on here as possible for all readers, current and future, to have access to. -- Could you write back with as much information as you can think of? Time era of use, railroads using it, what the color indicated, etc. would be helpful. Thanks. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Saturday, March 1, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. what color is kerosene pink?? Thank you Keith Posted Sunday, March 2, 2014 by Keith

A. Take a look at this thread on "Trainorders.com" from ten years ago (LINK 1). Seems the "Pink" question has been posed before.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, March 5, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2709 Flashing Oil Lantern  I am looking for information on oil RR lanterns that flash. I have not seen one but trying to verify they did exist. I'm told it worked by burning the available oxygen in the globe faster than it could enter through vents. Thanks,  Posted Friday, February 21, 2014 by GS   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Yes, turns out there were, and an intriguing device. See the Link or http://www.colag.de/blink.html for a complete description and very credible explanation of the patented process (read further down to get past the German section.) They were marketed at least in Australia under the trade name Art Craft. Link 1  Posted Friday, February 21, 2014 by RJMc

A. In a quick scan I did not see any mention of prior "railroad" use, but there would be no reason they might not have been or could be used for railroad or street railroad warning applications.  Posted Saturday, February 22, 2014 by RJMc

A. The link is to a video of the Australian flashing lantern on YouTube. Dietz in 1954 made 10 "Dietz Night Watch" kerosene utility lanterns that flashed. They are very rare, 5 of which are in private hands. They were painted Blue with red tops. The following was posted on the Traffic Gard forum by Frank Webb about the Australian lantern. "The units made by Artcraft in Australia were specifically designed for the flashing application with extra large vents in the body of the lamp to allow fresh air in quickly and an extra large vent hole in the top to allow as much partially unburnt kerosene out. Nevertheless, the flashing lamps suffered from incomplete combustion and carbon deposits built up more quickly so the top inner baffle was removable to facilitate cleaning. Even with all these measures the lamps would not reliably flash for say 12 hours and inevitably there was a build up of fumes inside the lamp that would affect the flashing quite often leading to the lamp self extinguishing, the main reason apart from cost that they were not very popular here. BTW Erik claimed that Rhewum (Nicoln) did not make a flashing version of their lamp and that the animated gifs on his site were of a Rhewum that was deliberately modified to make it flash, did you modify your Rhewum or was it" manufactured that way?  Link 1  Posted Saturday, February 22, 2014 by BC

 Q2706 Switch Lamp  I'm trying to find out about the switch stand lamp I own. I bought this in the late 70's from an old mail based auction service called Antiques & Artifacts. It's a cannonball style lamp. I have not been able to find anything about who manufactured this, how old it is, and anything else that may be important. It is an electric lamp, not a modified kerosene lamp. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, February 15, 2014 by MN   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  It might be an Adlake 1162 which has an aluminum cast body that is hinged in the same place as yours. The base should be cast iron and is spring loaded. This information is from "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting,Volume Two-The Railroad Signal Lamp" page 86. There is only a blurred drawing of the lamp there, no photo and no production dates. There should have been a a gasket at the hinged joint for water protection that looks like it is missing in yours. Only a guess as to age would be 1950's or 60's.  Posted Sunday, February 16, 2014 by KM

A. Anyone know where I can buy this Adlake light? I have not seen one like this on EBay. It has a great design and would look great in my collection. JPH Posted Sunday, March 2, 2014 by JPH

A. To JPH, This style lamp was used by the N&W. I have two that are identical that came out of the Bluefield, WV yard. I very seldom see one for sale. At one time there were hundreds in the yard, they all disappeared in the 1980's. Good luck. I thought this might narrow down a search territory for you. GaryP Posted Sunday, March 23, 2014 by GaryP

 Q2705 Bridge Lamp or...?  This lamp was made by Dressel. I've seen similar versions, and almost the same size, but none had the eyelets on all four of the top and bottom corners. I'm guessing those were for guide wires? The handle has a very sturdy similar loop. I've looked on this website here but failed to find a similar version. And like others of the same size I'm guessing the large fount with 8 in. fresnel cylindrical lens? Currently this lamp has none. Roundels are 8.375 in. Thanks for the input.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, February 10, 2014 by JG   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Thank you! Now to find a fount with the fresnel lens. Oh sure...lol Posted Monday, February 10, 2014 by JG

A.  This information is from "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting,Volume Two-The Railroad Lamp" by Richard Barrett, page 200. He lists a 401A top bridge lamp which has the mounting lugs on all four corners and has a loop in the hnadle. It had aan 8" 360 degree fresnel lens inside and had 8&3/8 inch roundrels, two red and two green. The 401 model did not have the loop or the mounting lugs.  Posted Monday, February 10, 2014 by KM

 Q2704 Pyle Lamp  I have a PYLE electric marker lamp that I found at a garage sale 10-12 years ago. When I first got it I tried to find out its purpose history and could not come up with any satisfactory answers to those questions. The other day I was going thru some boxes I had packed away and came across the lamp that I had forgotten all about; then looking online came across your site. I would greatly appreciate your input as to its history purpose. Much thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Sunday, February 9, 2014 by KG   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This is an electric marker lamp which would have been used on the rear corner of a caboose, passenger car or sometimes locomotives, to warn following trains. See Prior Q's 2668 and 2355 for more info (enter just the number in the 'by question number' search box to go directly to those prior questions.) These were known as 'cat's eye' electric markers and were used about 1960's to 1980's. They were a middle generation in between older, larger electric types (which were similarly-sized to the former kerosene markers) and the much brighter markers later required by US Federal safety rules.  Posted Sunday, February 9, 2014 by RJMc

 Q2702 More images re: #2655  Follow the link for more images of the lamp discussed in #2655.  Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by Web Editor  Link 1     Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q2701 Switch Lamp with Wings  Hello...I was wondering if anyone could tell me about the switch lamp in the attached picture. I have done some research but have not come up with anything. It has day targets that are shaped like 'wings'. Is this something that may have been custom made? Any info appreciated...thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 by Jerry   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  Hi Jerry - That is a really wonderful old piece. They don’t show up very often. I’ve never seen one in person but have seen them before in photos. Yours is an Adlake, though for some time I had thought these were Dressel lamps; their earlier lamps had three cap legs as well and from some angles are hard to distinguish from the Adlakes. I can’t find any listings for them either and they are not in the 1926 Dressel catalog that I have. With the cap legs on the outside of the vent cone, this would be from the “Ninteen - Teens”; after the 1907 Adlake catalog pictured on this site and before the mid 1920s, when the Adlake Square Top lamps were introduced. I have seen them before, so I believe them to be a stock item with integral day target “Wings”; though perhaps made exclusively for a handful or even just one particular railroad, (..or maybe an obscure catalog item. --- Are those Wings riveted on over a complete cylindrical body, or is the body made up in sections, with the Wing pieces being an actual segment of the body?? --- [Does anyone have a photo with one of these in use in a yard??] --- The body of the lamp and the back of the wing was yellow and the front of the target was green. Can you tell us if you think those colors were paint or a fired on porcelain enamel? -- How does the lamp open; sliding side door, or hinged lid?? -- As always, I strongly urge you to leave it just as it is and not try to repaint or restore it, as it is RARE and historically valuable and significant. -- Do you know anything at all about its origins; road, location, city, state, region etc? -- Would you please send in a photo of the cap, or at least a very detailed description of the EXACT lettering and its arrangement on the cap? -- That may help me give you a relative time line date (but not a year ‘date’) --Very Cool Piece there Jerry ---- .... Red Beard Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. The link is to a pic of a steel mill setting with a lamp that might be this type, or similar, in plain view. The 'armor' would also make a lot of sense in areas where coal, ore, or stone are being handled and might otherwise smash an unprotected lamp.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by RJMc

A. Thanks all for the info...actually I just bought this along with 4 other lamps and probably won't receive them for a couple of weeks....when I do will posy some more details....I do know that it is marked new York city lines in an oval that is actually made into the lamp....will advise when I receive it...thanks...jerry Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by jerry

A. That's much more likely New York CENTRAL Lines...which did use an oval logo, and which would make it from a major RR and the 1900 to 1920 time frame very reasonable. If it really says 'city lines' it would much more likely be from subway or similar service. Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by RJMc

A. Sorry I was wrong...not New York City Lines but New York Central Lines Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by jerry

A. Hello...definitely an interesting piece. I have never seen one of these, but on looking at the heavy construction in the photo, I get the impression it is 'armor' applied more for physical protection of the lamp than to add visibility (which the day targets normally do.) So I suspect these may have been made for rough service environments where the regular style lamps would be quickly destroyed. Steel mill railroads come to mind, where things like molten steel and slag get splashed around onto the track; and possibly lumbering operations, where there would be frequent dragging material, rolling logs, etc. We can only see a small section of the mount in the pic; is it also heavier-duty than the normal base? If so, that would support the 'rough service application' theory. If the wing assembly was lighter-duty, I would suspect the wings were added as 'blinders' to make sure only one lens could be seen at a time, but that could have been done with just sheet metal rather than plate.  Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by RJMc

A. Hello Everyone...I expect the lamp to be delivered by UPS today. I was able to find out a bit more about this unusual lamp. Jerry Hemm referred me to a guy who referred me to a guy...Scott Hambly who had some info in his file on this rare lamp. ADLAKE BULLENTIN B-92 ( SEPT 1927 ) NO. 1166 AND 1166 1/2 SWITCH LAMPS. According to Bob Hornberger, the last Adlake sales agent in Oakland, California , who had worked as an agent for many years, the No. 1166 and 1166 1/2 model was designed by Mr. last of the Michigan Central RR and sold only to that railroad. Michigan central was an independent subsidiary of the New York Central System after 1867.The NYC used a few of the 1166 1/2 models with their own identification plate which is the one that I have. The 1166 1/2 is mentioned on page 86 of THE ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RAILROAD LIGHTING VOL. II. While it mentions the 45 degree angle day targets it does not show any pictures or diagrams of it. Now I have to decide what I am going to do with the lamp...do I restore it or do I just clean it up and leave " as is"...WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK OUT THERE?  Posted Thursday, March 6, 2014 by JERRY

A. Jerry, Thanks so much for the excellent and valuable information on that unusual lamp!! -- As always, I STRONGLY SUGGEST sitting with the lamp exactly as it is for a few years and see if you come to appreciate it just as it is. -- As you have found out, it is a VERY RARE piece. You can never make it look 'original' or new out of the crate. (just look how fake the repainted lamps on eBay look!!) -- If you try to 'restore' it, you will destroy much of its original historical value. --- You can always repaint it a year from now or five years from now; BUT once repainted you can NEVER return it to its current historical condition, the condition it is in right now. -- In my opinion, sandblasting (or even walnut shell blast medium) and repainting would ruin this piece of railroad history!! -- I always urge collectors to leave a lamp just as it is, ..or give it just a light and very gentle HAND cleaning with some warm water and a tooth brush and maybe a little liquid dish soap. -- Do sit with it for a while. See if it grows on you ---- .... Red beard Posted Saturday, March 8, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2699 Purple Tested?  What does the word seen on Corning and Kopp stickers 'Purple Tested' really mean? Does it mean tested as to being purple or tested for being absent of purple?  Posted Friday, February 7, 2014 by Keith   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. SEE Q1730 for more on Corning Glass and Standard Colors Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A.  Hi Keith, thanks for tackling this project. Glass color is something we do need to document as much as possible. -- In the 1800s and early 1900s, there were no national standard colors for railroad signals. In 1890 Corning Glass was producing and stocking globes and lenses in 32 different shades of green glass for different railroads, ..who all had a different idea of what they wanted "Green" to look like. In the early 1900s, Corning worked with the American Railroad Association, (predecessor to the AAR) to create nationwide standard colors for Signal Glass. A set of standardized signal colors was presented to the Railway Signal Association in 1905 and the railroads’ response was both positive and immediate. Corning’s standard colors were adopted by the Association in 1908. By 1914 virtually all railway signal glass across the US had been replaced with the new Corning standard colors. -- Ever since then the AAR (successor to the ARA) has maintained a tight standard on signal colors. -- The “Purple Tested” sticker on a lens tells us two things; 1) though blue glass, it will cast a "purplish" light when the lamp is lit. 2) the color coming through the lens meets the AAR standards for a “Purple” signal color as perceived by the human eye. --- This is where “Photometry”, the science of how the human eye perceives light and color, comes into play. --- Remember, “Railroad Signal Green” isn’t very “Green”, it is a light Teal/Aqua color, BUT, it is very easy for the human eye to identify at a distance. -- In railroad signaling, perception by the human eye is everything! -- The “Purple” signal needed to be easy to distinguish from Red or Blue, so the perceived hue of "Purple", as different from any other signal color, was much more important than trying to match a chromatically exact purple wavelength as defined on a color chart. [DJB, chime in on this, please] --- Keep up the good work on this project Keith!! ---- .... Red Beard  Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Red Beard, First as long as it is defined as, purple tested, means it is a so called purple. The sticker does pose doubts both ways. Kopp doesn't seem to know anything. I am sure the records are there but now everything is made in China to include the Engineers. The people there just seem to be sales and order takers. Even when I asked about pictures of globes and lenses they knew nothing,"Sgt. Schultz syndrome ". By the way the signal green color was invented in 1907 at on of our big universities and patented at that time. Anyway that's enough of green. I just wanted to get a true meaning before I do any more. I still have to do light wavelength work. Thank you for the additional info. Keith Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by Keith

A. Keith,I have seen old Corning Glass Works bulletins that told that each piece of signal glassware was subjected to a photometric test before leaving the factory and the sticker on the piece showed that it met the requirements for the AAR specs.I also recall,but not where,seeing a picture of a lady inspector doing this test on a supply of lenses at the factory.I saw this picture only a few months ago and perhaps others on this site have too? I seem to recall that she was a Corning employee.I would think that testing a few pieces out of each batch would have been sufficient,but they seemed to error on the side of safety.And for the record,I was required to take a color blind test with my pre-employment physical and several more tests as my career progressed.Red Beard,did you take these tests too,or maybe it was just required for certain occupations ? After further thought,I would guess that several shades of each color must have been tried in the field with train and signal people,who conducted a practical,everyday test,after the laboratory tests were conducted,and the final result was the selection of a shade that worked for most humans ??? DJB Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by DJB

A.  DJB; Yes, took the color blind test when I hired on, but not again after that; looked like a pastel terrazzo floor, or a bowl of red and green lentils swirled together with numbers hidden in there. I’ve always had exceptionally acute color perception; I passed that 100% but flunked the overall vision test as I have something like 20/200 uncorrected eye-sight. That kept me out of switching and road service but, with glasses, was good enough to be a clerk. I have a Commercial Drivers License and still take that color test every four years and it’s still the very same little spiral bound book it was back then! - I’m also very far sighted. I amazed old Howard “Andy” Anderson when he trained me as Car Checker (the Clerk who goes out and verifies all the car numbers when a foreign road gave us a cut of cars). Being so far sighted I could spot the UTLX tank cars in a string of tanks at a half mile’s distance, due to that bright yellow lettering, long before we could read the reporting marks. Andy thought I was BS’ing him when I said something like , “betchya cars 5,6,7, and 12 are UTLX”, and sure enough, when we got over there, they were. ...and Andy had pretty good eye-sight too; enough so that at the tender age of 18, the Army Air Corps plunked him down in the back seat of a B-17 with a pair of .50 cal machine guns and told him to shoot down Nazis. ....like most of those guys, he never talked about it beyond that. Andy was one of my heroes on the railroad. Probably the best man you could hope to work with; always cheerful, never cussed or said an unkind word about anyone, and always the laconic philosopher. I’d been a railfan my whole life, so on my first day of training with him we saw a Pennsy car; no initials, just PENNSYLVANIA and the car number on the side. He asked me what I’d write for initials on that and I said “PRR”; that impressed him. Then we found one that just said SEABOARD and the number, no initials. He asked me “what do you write down for that?”; I said “S.A.L. for Seaboard Air Line”. Andy looked at me, paused, and remarked “boy, you sure know your railroads”. I grinned from ear to ear. Car Checker was a good job for me; always said it was like being a “paid professional railfan”; watching trains and jotting down numbers. ---- .... Red Beard - © 2014 Red Beard the Railroad Raider  Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. DJB and Red Beard, Just looked at a Kopp purple tested lens. The only signification on the lens is the sticker, purple tested. A very dark cobalt with darker blue with very lite cyan rings. I also have a Corning made fresnel globe for the Santa Fe Railroad, very dark cobalt, same cyan tint but liter. The packaging says blue. The more I study this the worse it gets. After I get wave length readings maybe it will make more sense. Thank you, Keith ,  Posted Monday, February 10, 2014 by Keith

A. Red Beard, The Handlan catalog also asks in ordering Purple or Lunar White whether kerosene or electric lamp is employed. The blue and purple were sometimes also used in conjunction with amber to mark camp cars, dining and sleeping. Thank you for the info. Keith Posted Monday, February 10, 2014 by Keith

A. Keith; You’ve hit on the crux of the whole Blue / Purple issue. Sounds like that Fresnel globe and the lens look to be almost the same color. To the best of my knowledge there were no Purple globes in use from 1960 onward, based on a lifetime of personal observation; before that I can’t personally say, but I have never heard of any being mentioned anywhere before you originally brought the “Purple” question up a while back. That Blue Fresnel globe is most certainly for a Carman’s Blue Lantern; the ones that hung from the blue “Safety First” metal flags hung on cars to signify that men were working on, under or around the car and that it was, under no circumstances, to be moved or even coupled into as a workman could be injured or killed if the car moved even an inch. The same applied to locomotives that were being serviced. Those were the only thing Blue Globes were used for. --- Those Blue carmen’s lanterns were always a bugaboo as a kerosene flame has very little blue light in it, so they were always pretty dim and hard to see, and really hard to make out if there was much extraneous light, as there tended to be in yards where they were most often used. ---- WHEN YOU TEST those for wave length, BE SURE to use a K-1 Kerosene flame, not electric or even lamp oil, as the color spectrum in each is different and you won’t be measuring what men in the field actually saw on the railroad if you don’t use pure kerosene. - You could additionally use a full spectrum electric light to test the true color of the glass, but do a K-1 test also to tell us what men 'SAW' when they were working. - You are going to want to reproduce the exact same conditions as in original railroad use. You can get good K-1 at a better hardware store; call around a bit first as not all will carry it though. Keep plugging away, this is interesting to read about! Thanks for all the effort you are going to! ---- .... Red Beard Posted Monday, February 10, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Keith and Red Beard, I spent a little time working with a Corning purple optical type lens in a kerosene switch lamp using the K-1 fuel and standard long time burner. The more I look at the purple color and the lighter cyan rings, the more I think that the color difference is somehow connected to the concentric rings on the lens and the refraction or bending of the light thru these stepped rings. Refracted light tends to break down like sunlight passing thru a prizm. This doesn't sound very scientific but I believe it has something to do with the color tints in the same purple lens. It will be very interesting to see what the professionals arrive at. Something else that is of great importance to how any type lens performs in any given signal lamp,is using the correct focal length lens for the particular mfrs lamp being used.In the case of a typical 4-1/2" optical lens, you must select a 3 inch or 3-1/2 inch focal length or "F" length for the lens to produce a strong true color aspect. Most collectors don't concern themselves with this detail but someone who had to maintain signals certainly did.This detail also held true for the electric block signals.Use the wrong focal length lense and the result was a poor signal aspect with little intensity or viewing distance.DJB Posted Wednesday, February 19, 2014 by DJB

A. DJB, Basically that's correct. If one were to use a straight purple globe the light would be white with no color or a very light tint that could hardly be noticed. With the focal length you talked about the purple hue is formed on the outside of the lens. Only certain colors coming thru, and combining with the red last and forming purple/violet. I do not know if this would work with a lantern globe even if it was cast properly. Requires further study. Thank you Keith Posted Thursday, February 20, 2014 by Keith

A. DJB: Here I am, revisiting this more than four years later. You asked about the idea of field testing several shades of a given color to determine how people actually perceived the colors in service. Somewhere, I have a hundred page document from Corning themselves. It covers many things including lens color. Apparently "Signal Green" (also known as Admiralty Green) was chosen as it contains NO yellow wave length color. The problem with green shades that contained any yellow was that at distance, especially if there were any extremely fine drops of water in the air, there would occur a prismatic effect, separating the green from the yellow light and make the green signal appear to actually be yellow! - The Signal Green hue resolved this problem. It is the same reason that highway traffic signals use a nearly same color of "green". ---- .... Red Beard Posted Saturday, September 29, 2018 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2695 Onion Globe Lantern  I have been trying to find manufacturers or past made onion globes and could find one that the topped matched what is shown but not the vent holes. Is this an authentic railroad or nautical globe and if it is do you have an idea who made it? I have been trying to find some kind guide of mfg. symbols to check on them. Any help would be useful and helpful. I have not received the item yet and just bought it. I am also a beginner of collecting.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, January 29, 2014 by LL   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  The loop in the bale of this lantern is typical of a marine lantern, nautical lamps frequently have the tie down rings on the base also. There are a few things that are bothering me about this lantern. I was zooming in on the wick knob to see if it had a maker's name on it when I noticed that all of the guard wires and the top of the lamp are bolted together with machine screws. And I could be wrong but it looks like the nuts may be hex nuts not square nuts, (have to look in Wikipedia to see when hex nuts were first used). Also the burner has the prongs on it which would hold a chimney, but no chimney was used with this kind of lantern. I looked through "Lanterns That Lit Our World, Book Two" by Anthony Hobson which is the best resource that I know of for marine lanterns. I could not find a manufacturer that used the plus sign(+) vent holes. There is not a really good resource book for marine lamps and lanterns. And there have been an awful lot of outright fakes and reproductions for many years that by now have developed age and patina. I kinda think this may be one of those and I would welcome some other opinions about this item. The link is for an article by Tom Walsh which is about fixed globe lanterns and how the guard wires on them were put together. The second link is another article by Tom Walsh which is in the Railroadiana Library. Link 1  Link 2  Posted Thursday, January 30, 2014 by KM

A.  This link is for a short article from Ehow about the history of hex nuts and bolts. They say that the development of softer more uniform Bessemer steel in the late 1870's allowed the close tolerance maching needed for a hex head to properly fit into a wrench. A square head did not have to be so close because it would not round off as easily and would still work. Common usage was brought on by the World wars.  Link 1  Posted Thursday, January 30, 2014 by KM

A.  The International Guild of Lamp Researchers, aka The Lampguild, has a Q&A on line and occasionally marine lantern questions turn up there. I can link to all of their archived questions but not to a specific number. So open this link and wait a while for the whole list to load up and then scroll to Q4352, 5225 and particularly to Q6019. 6019 shows an onion globe lantern that may still be available from West Sea.  Link 1  Posted Thursday, January 30, 2014 by KM

A. I looked at the International Guild of Lamp Researchers site Q & A and still nothing looks like this particular lantern. It is the + mark or vent holes that have me intrigued. Also I see on most of the lanterns two types of metals were used. the Founts are not shown, nor the bottoms of the lanterns either. Q4352, Q5225 Q6019.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Friday, January 31, 2014 by Q2695 LL

A. My two cents: This lantern does look like a marine lantern. IMO it appears to be more of a decorative item than one that was made for real working use. Please note that this lantern has a bail, not a bale. A bale is bundle of material - see any hay bale for details.  Posted Tuesday, February 4, 2014 by JEM

A. I received the lantern today and it does have blown glass and bubbles inside the glass. Did they put hand blown glass in in reproduction lanterns? I also noticed where the chimney is there is a strip of copper for the banding near the globe that goes around where the glass meets the metal.  Link 1  Posted Monday, February 10, 2014 by Q2695 LL

 Q2694 Lamp Information Needed  I am trying to identify the style of this marker lamp. I have had owned this marker lamps since the mid 1950s and it belong to the Southern Pacific Railroad. As you can see from the pictures it is in its original condition but I have not been able to determine the style of this lamp from any pictures. There are two green lenses inside of this lamp that move up or down in front of the clear lens from a lever on each side of the lamp. Can you provide any information, please?   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, January 25, 2014 by JRG   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  This is a locomotive classification lamp, not a caboose marker lamp. It may be an Adlake number 348 which was available in their catalog from 1921. It was an electric lamp with the color changing mechanism that you have on your lamp. I checked SP steam roster photoos and it appears that the SP used these on many but not all of their cab forward articulated locomotives. See the link from North East Rails which has the roster and photos of the cab forwards. Wait a minute for the list to load up and then click on any loco number to see the photo. Some of the photos which I checked that have these lamps are locomotive numbers 4000 photo from 1931, 4200 from 1938, 3910 from 1939, and 4038 from 1947. The second link shows the 4038, and the lamp is on the front corner of the cab between the number board and the front window. I checked some photos of other SP locomotives that are not cab forwards and I did not see any of these lamps on them. They all had the more common cannonball style class lights.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Monday, January 27, 2014 by KM

A. The Adlake No. 348 lamp, which this at least very closely resembles, was a U.S.R.A. standard design. USRA was the Federal government agency that took over and ran the US RR network during the World War I transportation emergency. Since USRA designs were public, on things up to and including complete locomotive types, other lamp manufacturers could or might have produced this same lamp design. A Handlan Model 84 or 85 classification lamp has a very similar housing to yours, but has 4 lenses instead of two, and the top handle is different. But lamp manufacturers would usually produce almost anything a customer requested, particularly if they ordered in quantity. So to get more specific, look over your lamp very carefully; there may be small manufacturers marks stamped in the edge of the top ring, under the paint -- which is where Handlan might have put them. (All info from Barrett's Vol. 2 on RR Lamps)  Posted Wednesday, January 29, 2014 by RJMc

A. JRG: Your lamp is, without doubt, an Adlake. The exact shape of the lid, and even more so, the mechanism that moves the color disk up and down behind the clear lenses are uniquely Adlake. -- Your lamp, which originally came from the manufacturer as an electric lamp, is the next evolution from the kerosene one in Q2684 (read through that question), which was evolved from the #187 ½ as pictured in the 1907 catalog (Link 1 below). The mechanism for moving the color disk in your lamp is identical to the kerosene lamp in Q2684. That mechanism came in two versions; either one or two levers for actuating one or two color disks. The lamp in Q2684 has two levers for two color disks behind each clear lens (one red filter and one green filter) while yours has just one lever for moving one color disk (a green filter). Adlake was not one for reinventing the wheel if they didn’t have to. They tended to modify an existing product with new innovations. The #187½ lamp evolved into the lamp in Q2684 with changes in the vent cone and a new mechanism for moving the color filters. As electric Classification Lamps came into use, supplanting kerosene ones, your lamp was the next evolution of a basic existing design going back to at least the #187½ from the turn of the 20th century. The cast mounting bracket ring on the base of your lamp is still the same one as used on the previous two lamps. The mechanism that moves the color disks was a patented Adlake invention, not found on lamps from other manufacturers. --- OF NOTE: This is where collecting Southern Pacific Class Lamps gets interesting; the SP modified MANY old kerosene / acetylene Class Lamps by removing the vent cone and soldering a sheet metal disk over the top of the lamp to cover the hole where the vent cone had been, and then electrifying the lamp. The photo of SP 4000 , (in LINK 1 in KM’s answer above) shows the EXACT same lamp as the one in this question -BUT- The photo of SP 3910 is an excellent example of such a modified, kerosene to electric lamp. If you blow up the photo of 3910 to its maximum magnification and look at the Class Lamp on the Fireman’s side, you can see the sliding door with a peephole on the back of the lamp, a clear sign that it has been modified to electric from an old kerosene lamp. The sliding door was still needed to access the (new) electric light in the lamp as the lid did not open on these converted Class Lamps. The photo also clearly shows the box for the lever actuated mechanism that moved the color disk behind the lens. (Great link KM !) ALSO: Early on, with kerosene Class Lamps, the SP liked the alternate mounting brackets which riveted to the side of the lamp, as pictured on the No. 187 lamp in my LINK 1 below. (The No. 187½ lamp drawing in the same link has the bracket that circles the base of the lamp as does JRG’s lamp in this original question.) So far, all the SP kerosene Class Lamps I’ve seen had the riveted on, side mounted, mounting bracket. And, I’ve yet to see an “original from the factory electric” Adlake Class Lamp with the side mount bracket; all of them having the one that circles the base. If an SP electric Class Lamp has the side mounted bracket (as in the photo of SP 3910) it is almost certainly a modified kerosene lamp converted to electric lighting. ---- .... Red Beard © 2014 Red Beard the Railroad Raider  Link 1  Posted Thursday, January 30, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2693 Lamp Information Needed  I am a materials engineering student. For my senior design class, we have been tasked with casting a top for a rail way lantern lighter from around 1850's with the initials 'J&G' stamped on the sides of the lighter. Unfortunately, we haven't found an exact match online. I know it's an odd request, but is there any information about the piece that I could obtain? We've had a pretty tough time tracking down information on this piece in particular, and we wish to donate the complete piece to a museum in April. Any information would be very helpful.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Saturday, January 25, 2014 by BH   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  This looks like a cast iron torch to me, not a "lantern lighter". See Q 2510 in the Archives for more information on torches and also there is a list of the other torch question numbers that are posted in the Archives. Why do you think that this torch is as old as 1850? if it is a torch railroads were using them up into the 1950's or 1960's. Torches like this are used to check for air leaks in the brake lines. If it is that old a Google patent search using a limited time period might turn up something. Posted Saturday, January 25, 2014 by KM

A. As also mentioned in Q 2510, make a special effort to look at the Link, which is to a film about how to maintain steam locomotives, originally professionally produced by the New York Central RR. It talks specifically about how torches were used, and shows them in use. You may want to keep a copy of the film, or a reference to it, with your project to 'bring it to life.' As to making a cap or lid: Bear in mind the usage. As shown in the film, the lit torch had to be swung around quite a bit, and contained combustible liquid. So it needed a mechanically tight-fitting cap and some styles had threaded caps. The torches were often filled with stringy absorbent cotton waste matter (as were hand lantern fonts), so at least there wasn't a lot of free liquid sloshing around (which you would have to somehow seal and contain in your 'new' design.) Cotton waste matter is getting rare these days, but you can probably use old T shirts to substitute if the torch will actually be lit.  Link 1  Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 by RJMc

A. Thank you very much for the information about the torch. I watched the video about how the torches were used and the functionality of the piece makes more sense. I have been looking to track down a "J&G" railway and have found a "Jeffares & Green" that built a rail system in South Africa... Does anyone know of any other "J&G" railroads? Again, thanks for all the information already given. It has helped tremendously. Posted Monday, January 27, 2014 by BH

A.  I can't come up with a J&G Railroad after looking through 2 railroad name reference books and one that includes trolley and interurban lines. And the Railroad Names list which is available elsewhere on this site doesn't show anything either. The TSROSS Railway Names list which is available on line includes some international information and no J&G there. I think the J&G may be the name of the foundry that made this. I see other lettering or a number cast in on the torch lower down from J&G which is not clear on the photo, is that the 1850? That might be a model number and not a date. The link is for the TSROSS Railway Names list. Link 1  Posted Monday, January 27, 2014 by KM

 Q2691 Train Order Lamp  My question is how is a train order lamp used, like a semaphore lamp but with a semaphore on each side since there are two lens? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, January 22, 2014 by MG   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hi, Train order signals were located at passenger and train order stations, anywhere where a telegraph operator might have to give orders to a train. The signals at these locations were double-sided semaphore signals, one blade facing each direction of travel, and were manually operated by the operator at the station, unlike an automatic block signal which was train activated. Your lamp sat between the two blades, thus the two lenses, and illuminated the signal s colored lenses at night If the train order blade was in clear position the train had no orders. If in the "Approach" position (45 degrees) the train would receive orders without stopping. If the signal was at "Stop" (horizontal) the train would have to stop and the train crew would physically have to sign the orders to show that they received them. Refer to question 2671 for more on train orders. JN Posted Thursday, January 23, 2014 by JN

A. And later on, when the RR's got tired of maintaining large (usually about 5 or 6 feet long) mechanical semaphore blades, and train crews got used to looking for just signal lights, a 'train order signal' became just electric light signals, but used the same way as described. The Train Order signal was often marked with a 'TO' or similar plate; usually it was close to where the operator was located, often right on the front of a tower, and might display red/yellow/green colors, or maybe just yellow if the other signals close by provided the operator the ability to stop trains. Just for one example, the first link shows the Nickel Plate station at Rocky River, OH, very early on, probably about 1900, equipped with train order semaphores (and then also as the station appears lately, with no train order signal.) The second link is to a photo of the way the station appeared thru the 1930's or '40's until about 1970, with a 3-position color light signal for the train order light which replaced the semaphore blades. As with most things related to RR's, each RR did things differently from the others, and often very differently from place to place on its own lines.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Friday, January 24, 2014 by RJMc

A. Thanks for the information,sirs Posted Saturday, January 25, 2014 by mg

 Q2690 'Short' Reliable Lantern  I have a railroad Lantern the last patented date is 1913 It is an Adlake Reliable. Measures 9 and 9/16 inches tall to the top of the dome. The globe would be 3 in. inside diameter (ID) at the bottom, 1 and 7/8 in. at the top, 4 and 1/4 in. tall. It is shorter than the other pictured Adlake lantern (right) but the base of the globe would be larger. It’s too tall for a short globe and too short for a tall. I do not know if the font and burner are original to this lantern there are no markings on the lantern other than pictured. Does anyone have any information about this lantern and its original parts? Thank you   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, January 22, 2014 by RB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Looks like a 41/2 inch globe size sometimes known as a Handlan globe. What railroad mark is on the hood and what is the measurement from the top of the fount cup to the globe retainer?? I can tell you then. This is also explained on this website. Let me know and it can tell you where to purchase globes for this . Thank you Keith Posted Thursday, January 23, 2014 by Keith

A. I'm not sure if a Handlan globe would fit or not, I never tried one and never saw one in these lanterns. Usually these lanterns are found with cast US Army (U.S.A.) early Vesta globes, without the top globe seat like later Vesta globes have. Adlake may have adjusted the Reliable design for a government contract that required the continued use of the Vesta globe. The Army may have had an ample supply of those globes on hand as they were already using the Dietz Vesta or they simply found the more compact Vesta globe was better for their needs. Posted Thursday, January 23, 2014 by JFR

A.  Thank you for the quick response. The adlake reliable lantern came with a Vesta globe marked USA. I thought it was a miss-match as the globe sits on the inside of the globe seat not in the space that you would think the globe would sit. a Handlan globe is just slightly too tall. but all Vesta globes fit in this Lantern. Looks like this lantern is complete and original Thank you for the background and history!!  Posted Thursday, January 23, 2014 by Rich Bradley

A. You're welcome, Rich. Maybe some other folks have further info. Perhaps the most practical reason for the Reliable/Vesta globe combo was to reduce the number and sizes of lantern globes that would be needed in the field. This would insure that the replacement of a broken globe, a common occurrence, would be a simple one size fits both solution. Posted Thursday, January 23, 2014 by JFR

A. Your unmarked Reliable frame was originally olive drab U.S. army green and came with a Dietz Vesta style globe that was embossed "USA". There were also unmarked Dietz Vesta lanterns the were painted the same color and came with the same globe. They were probably used by the U.S. military during or after WWII. Posted Wednesday, February 5, 2014 by JAH

A. This appears to be an adalake reliable frame with a globe retainer(replacing the origional retainer) that accomodated a 4" globe, I had one with embossed frame & globe NYNH&HRR Posted Saturday, February 8, 2014 by Dr. L

 Q2689 Lamp Info Needed  Hello everyone out there. I need some help identifying this adlake lamp I just purchased. Any info is appreciated. Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, January 20, 2014 by Jerry   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Information is from "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Railroad Lighting,Volume Two-The Railroad Lamp" by Richard Barrett, pages 13 and 14. Barrett says this is an engine classification lamp or a tender marker lamp, Adlake number 252, Barrett's number A&W CL-13. It came with the square top,a windproof door and a type "R" mounting bracket unless ordered differently. On page 14 there is a photo of a lamp with the unusual double mounting bracket like yours has. Also on page 14 there is a double lens lamp with the regular marker style mounting bracket which came from the Minneapolis, Saaint Paul and Sault Saint Marie Railroad. On page 13 there is a photo of a single lens lamp which was used by Chicago Rapid Transit which has the regular marker lamp foot style bracket. Posted Monday, January 20, 2014 by KM

A. This is a very interesting lamp. Some further questions to maybe help pin down how this particular lamp may have been used: First, lamps in this kind of service were almost always marked for the owning line; check all over, including on the bottom, for tags or stamped lettering, and maybe even for initials stamped into the mounting brackets. Second, what region or area did it come from? The brackets which would slide over a flat-bar type mount suggest interurban or electric railway service -- they often mounted larger headlights that way, but it could possibly be hung over the raised edge of a steam engine tender. Third, the small levers sticking out of the side boxes suggest the possibility changeable colored lenses inside (or maybe they are just blinders); is there anything like that, and what colors can be displayed?  Posted Monday, January 20, 2014 by RJMc

A. I should be getting the lamp in about a week as it is being shipped and will check for any markings and the lens color...by the way does anyone have an idea where I might buy a copy of THE ILLUSTRATED ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RAILROAD LIGHTING VOL. 2.... are there any reprints out in the marketplace? thanks...jerry Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 by jerry

A.  Back in July,2013 the Rochester and Genesee Valley Railroad Museum had a limited number of soft cover wire bound copies of Volume Two for sale. I don't know if they have any left still,the price was $55.00. You can contact them at rgrr@s363.com. The link is for their main website. Link 1  Posted Tuesday, January 21, 2014 by KM

A. I sent an email to the address you listed for the book but came back as undeliverable...could you please recheck it for me...thanks....jerry Posted Wednesday, January 22, 2014 by jerry

A.  Sorry about that Jerry, I forgot the "v" in the address. Try rgvrr@s363.com Posted Thursday, January 23, 2014 by KM

A. Just got the lamp and noticed that it has one clear lens and one red lens with a green lens inside the lamp behind each one controlled by a toggle...would this have been normal or did someone replace the clear lens with a red one at some point in time? Posted Sunday, January 26, 2014 by jerry

 Q2687 Sterno Candlelamp Softlight Lamp Oil  Has anyone used 'Sterno Candlelamp Softlight Lamp Oil' in Lanterns or Lamps? Does anyone know anything about using it in old kerosene lamps and lanterns?? -- I was in a very fun, and rather dark, 1920s Speakeasy themed bar recently; 90% of their lighting was from assorted full sized, new, reproduction, flat wick, cold blast 'barn lanterns'. There were probably 30 of them burning in a small room (less than 1500 square feet). I thought they were electric at first as there was absolutely NO smell from them. I went around the room and sniffed several of the lanterns; absolutely no odor at all! I do realize that an old lantern or lamp that originally burned kerosene will always have some residual odor to it when it gets hot, but I’m thinking this may be a big help to those guys who want to light up their collection in the house, without mama wanting to throw him and the lamps, kit and caboodle, out the back door due to the smell. The Sterno site (Link 1) says the stuff is 'Highly refined clear liquid paraffin'. It burns with a nice bright, slightly silvery, white light. Seems to be selling for about $15 - $20 a gallon through restaurant supply houses; many of which will sell to the general public too. ---- .... Red Beard  Posted Tuesday, January 14, 2014  Link 1     Post a Reply  Email a reply

 Q2686 Lantern Info Needed  I found 2 old lanterns my dad had for over 50 years. One is a Vesta Deitz N.Y.O.& W. I know this line went bankrupt in the 50’s. I can barely read them but there are dates in small letters on the top like Nov 8 '27 Apr 3'28 Dec 25'28 may 4 ' 20 and the last 42… what do the dates mean? And also on the globe it has 'made in u.s.a.' and the CNX trade mark but no N.Y.O.& W on it. The globe definitely looks original. Just wanted to know if it has to have the N.Y.O.& W words on it to be original? Is this lantern rare as I think it is? Thanks.  Posted Wednesday, January 8, 2014 by Drewvu   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Hi, The O&W went out of business in 1957. The "42" means the lantern was made in 1942. There should be an "S" in front of the 42, meaning Syracuse plant. The globe doesn't have to say O&W. That cost extra money that the railroad didn't have. The O&W is a very sentimental favorite of railfans. It was always the underdog. We have a very strong NYO&W Historical Society. And, yes, O&W items tend to be rare. The Dietz Vesta was the most modern style of lantern that the railroad had. If you are interested in the NYO&W, go to http://owrhs.org/. JN Posted Wednesday, January 8, 2014 by JN

 Q2685 Brass vs. Plating  So if understand this correctly, many years ago some railroad lanterns were made of brass and were called presentation lanterns. These were limited in quantity as most were made of steel. Later, some steel lanterns were plated by individuals to look like brass or some other shiny finish to look good. The ones we see on Ebay were never in service with the shiny plated finish. Finally, some lanterns were brass plated and sold as lamps when the railroad market switched over to electric.  Posted Sunday, January 5, 2014 by JPH   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. You pretty much have it, except the brass lanterns were originaly sold as conductors lanterns. When they added an encraved fancy globe they were given to tetirees and others and were called presentation lanterns. There are also larger models that were made of brass for marine use. Posted Sunday, January 5, 2014 by BK

A. To expand just a little: the lantern manufacturers were very flexible, and the dies used for stamping out lantern parts really didn't care what metal was put in them....So when you look in the old lantern catalogs many options were offered, including even lanterns made completely of silver, gold, or nickel-silver, as well as brass and steel, and having lanterns painted at the factory. Obviously the fancier materials went for presentation lanterns, or for use by individual conductors who ordered and paid for their own fancy lantern to add 'a touch of class' to their operations, and some were used in daily service. Clearly these more exotic materials are quite rare but the possibility of finding them exists. The incredible variety of what was produced certainly adds to the interest, and the challenge, of collecting lanterns.  Posted Sunday, January 5, 2014 by RJMc

A. JPH: Great questions. It’s good to see a hobbyist wanting to learn about these aspects! -- For Clarification; It helps to denote which specific category of lighting device we are talking about. - LANTERN is the term used for hand held devices with a bulbous glass globe shaped like a pear (tall globe) or a goldfish bowl (short globe); this globe being surrounded by a “bird-cage” style wire frame. Most lantern globes did not focus the light, though some did have a small molded in round lens which created a spotlight effect. These were very rarely found in railroad use. Lanterns were carried by switchmen, brakemen, conductors and other men who used them for personal lighting at night and for giving lit hand signals to other men working with the trains. Many other classes of employees used hand lanterns in the course of their activities as well. Railroad lantern globes were made in clear (referred to as “white”), red, yellow, green and deep blue. -- LAMP is the term used for larger, heavier lighting devices which had a fixed, optical focusing, glass lens or multiple lenses in the formed sheet steel or cast body. Lamps were larger, heavier and were not carried by hand, but were mounted in a fixed position. Switch Lamps, Marker Lamps, Engine Classification Lamps, Semaphore Lamps, Order Board Lamps are a few examples. -- Above, BK & RJMc are referring to Hand Lanterns, and not to Lamps. -- When you see a LAMP on eBay that has been plated in Brass, Copper or Bronze, it is most likely an old Switch Lamp or Marker Lamp (formerly in service on the railroad, and painted black at that point in its existence) that a previous hobby owner obtained after the Lamp left railroad service, and someone (post railroad service owner) had the lamp plated so it would “look nice”. -- There were many makers of hand LANTERNS, but only a few manufacturers of LAMPS; Adlake, Dressel, Handlan, Pyle-National, WRRS, Grey Boston and Hiram Piper in Canada being the chief ones. The information BK & RJMc cite above is highly accurate for Hand Lanterns, but does not apply to LAMPS. To the best of my knowledge, there were no ‘modern’ (post 1890) Railroad Lamps made out of anything other than pressed sheet steel (which was then hot dipped in a molten “tin” or “terne” material for corrosion prevention), cast iron or cast aluminum. I do not believe that any Railroad Lamps were ever made of Brass or Copper; though many Marine Lamps were made of sheet copper or brass, as steel would quickly rust away in a salt air atmosphere even if hot dipped in terne. Moreover, I do not believe that any Lamp manufacturer ever made any Railroad Lamps and then offered them for sale in brass or copper plated variations. -- Handlan, an old and venerable manufacturer of Railroad Lamps and Hand Lanterns went through several changes of ownership in the twilight years of kerosene lighting on the railroad. In probably the mid to late 1970s, what was left of Handlan was purchased by a married couple as a for profit small business, which they ran successfully for about ten years. They decided to take the Handlan switch lamp patterns and make a line of free-standing decorator table lamps as well as swag lamps which hung from the ceiling by a chain. Some of those table lamps had a vertical tubular extension out through the top with a light socket, 100 watt bulb and a lamp shade as well. These decorator lamps were made of relatively thin sheet metal, but otherwise were made from the same patterns as their old Handlan line of actual railroad service Switch Lamps and Marker Lamps. These decorator pieces were also offered in factory plating in Brass or Copper finishes. They also continued to sell Switch Lamps and Marker Lamps to actual railroads, though most railroads had discontinued their use by the mid 1970s. By that time, Handlan would also sell actual railroad service grade Switch Lamps and Marker Lamps to the general public; though the quality of their Lamps had been diminished and by then they were made of very thin, pre-galvanized sheet metal.. Prior to that time, Adlake, Dressel and Handlan had refused to sell lamps to anyone other than the actual railroads. ----- Here’s where things get a little bit fuzzy! ---- The couple who owned the Handlan name in the late 1970s through the 1980s were very accommodating folks and wanted to meet customer demand. As I recall, you could get a railroad service grade Switch Lamp or Marker Lamp (with oil pot and burner) from Handlan at that time and have them plate it for you at the factory. (bearing in mind that at that time their railroad service grade lamps were made of pretty thin metal; pretty much the same as their Decorator Line) By that time Handlan / Rail Finders was a hobby & decorator focused manufacturer that still had a few fingers in the rapidly dying Kerosene Railroad Lamp business. I do not consider the “Handlan” company of that era to be an actual, serious supplier to the railroad industry. Adlake and WRRS were, and continue to be serious industrial suppliers of railroad signal lamps. Because Handlan in the mid-1970s & ‘80s had become more or less a decorator lighting fixture company, I still stand by my statement that no Railroad Lamp manufacturer ever made factory plated Switch or Marker Lamps; nor are there any reproduction Switch Lamps or Marker Lamps out there, pretending to be original railroad pieces, as I clarify at the end of Q2677! ---- .... Red Beard  Posted Sunday, January 5, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. What an awesome description of railroad lamps Red Beard. Do you know of any good books at the library that I can read? We can all learn more of this fascinating aspect of railroading. Anyone who owns a railroad lamp (unfortunately we can't own just one) can just dream of what type of trains it served years ago in the dark of night and how it's light aided the railroad workers and passengers who relied on its message for safe travel. Was it the Santa Fe, the Chicago Great Western, the CB&Q, the B&O,or the Wabash? Unless the lamp has the name stamped on it, we will never know. It's left up to the imagination of its current owner. It's our job to take care of these lamps and preserve them until the next generation comes along. Thankfully, some of these were preserved years ago for us to enjoy today. Happy bidding! JPH Posted Wednesday, January 8, 2014 by JPH

A. JPH, It is a distinct pleasure to hear from you. You truly get it! It’s gratifying to be able to pass a little of that history along to you and the other readers. Feel free to drop me a line at railroadraider@gmail.com --- Just before Christmas I was talking with a long time friend, John E. Bush, who has written several excellent books on Union Pacific steam engines. John and I were reminiscing about what it was like to view yards full of lit switch lamps back in the late 1960s. The first thing to note is that the world was much darker back then. There were far fewer street lights and those were incandescent; casting a softer, dimmer, warmer light. Many rail yards were completely unlit, except for the soft steady glow of kerosene switch lamps perched on their stands; some close to the ground and some as high as a man’s head. Little luminescent dots of green, red and yellow standing as silent sentinels in an almost empty yard cast a magical glow in the otherwise nearly pitch black surrounding a stretch of tracks. For someone who already loved trains, someone who would take a few moments and linger to soak up such a scene, it felt like an illustration out of a fairy tale; so strong and intoxicating was the spell that it cast over your awareness. ..if I were an artist, that is what I would paint; rail yards at night, filled with glowing switch lamps. ---- .... Red Beard - © 2014 Red Beard the Railroad Raider. Posted Thursday, January 9, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2684 Adlake Class Lamp  Hello All. I picked up an Adlake Classification Lamp at an estate sale last summer. The seller said it was her late father in law's who worked for Chicago & Northwestern RR. They had the lamp in their possessions since he passed 23 years ago. They didn't know much about it. It basically sat for years with an Adlake lock, chain & key hanging on it. The paint is rather rough & is scratched up but otherwise seems like it is in great condition. I haven't been able to find much info online regarding this lamp and I am new to the hobby. I have always had an interest in trains and the railroad. I am hoping someone can help me determine the era when this was most commonly used and when Chicago & Northwestern RR would have phased these out? Can anyone point me toward some good photos of steam engines that used this model of lamp? Could this have been a retirement gift from the RR? The previous owner wasn't sure but thought he may have been an engineer. I notice that the markings for the switches are upside down from what is shown on your website from the Adams & Westlake 1907 Catalog. Did Adlake customize features for different RR's? This one has white on top with red and green on the bottom. I am considering touching up the paint were it has been scratched off and would really appreciate your help with this. It looks like the RR repainted it periodically with a brush. There is even a spot where of white paint ran down the back side. What kind of paint would I use to keep it most original? Should I brush it or would a spray can be better? The bottom front between the lenses the paint is very rough, not sure what that is from? Should I remove that and smooth it out before repainting? I think it could also use a new wick, I put some clear kerosene in and lit it up to see how it looked, is that the normal fuel for this? Thanks in advance for your help.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, January 1, 2014 by Grant   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Yours is an older lamp, but it is not the one pictured in the 1907 catalog and here’s why; Look at the legs that hold the cap to the vent cone. On your lamp the legs are on the outside of the cone. In the catalog drawing the legs go down the inside of the cone. The drawing is completely accurate for the earlier vintage lamp. I have several lamps with those legs going down inside the cone. - Your lamp is a slightly newer version of the same basic # 187 lamp shown in the 1907 catalog. Adlake made slight improvement variations as lamp designs evolved. Besides the legs being on the outside of the vent cone, your lamp has a newer mechanism for working the color disks behind the clear (“white”) lenses; that is why yours has the white vs. colored aspects reversed compared to the drawing in the catalog. The color changing mechanism on your lamp is completely different from the 1907 version. Your lamp uses a toggle and cam to flip the color disks inside the lamp up and down. -- Did Adlake custom make lamps per railroad request? Absolutely; they’d make a railroad anything they ask for. Great Northern’s switch lamps are a classic example of that; a cylindrical body with interior fork mount tubes; unique to only the G.N. ; your lamp is not a “custom" piece however, just a different and newer design from the one pictured in the 1907 catalog. -- The design of your lamp is probably from the teens and could have been used clear up into the 1950s when steam engines were taken out of service. It would have been used on smaller, older steam engines as larger, later engines had electric class lamps. For photos; Google old C&NW steam photos and search the net on rail sites. -- “Touching up the paint??” - I suggest that you sit with it, exactly as it is, for a year or two before making any decisions about touching up or completely repainting the lamp and here’s why; what you have now is an accurate piece of true American railroad history. ANYTHING you do to the lamp will DESTROY that irreplaceable history. Sit with the piece exactly as it is for a few years and see if you come to appreciate it for what it is. -- As you said, you are new to the hobby; I guarantee that your taste and appreciation will change over time. You can always repaint it later. Once repainted, you can NEVER change it back to the original condition you got it in. -- The original paint on the lamp from Adlake is most likely “Japan Black”, an asphalt based paint that you can no longer get. There is nothing you can touch it up with or repaint it with that will match the original paint. That rough surface between and below the lenses likely has some serious corrosion under it. If you try to remove the paint from that area to touch it up, you will likely get into cosmetic and mechanical problems you’d rather not deal with (voice of experience!) ..believe it or not, the lamp will look better if you leave that area alone instead of trying to ‘clean it up’. I also think that over time you will come to appreciate that heavily weathered area a unique and interesting aspect of your lamp; one that identifies it and separates it from any others out there. ..there is certainly a story behind that rough surface, one you may never know, but it is part of the unique history of that lamp’s service; a history that you can preserve, ..or destroy. the choice is yours! -- Many novice collectors find a beautifully weathered old piece that has much history and a long story behind it and the first thing that crosses their mind is “gee, that would look great if I just cleaned it up and repainted it”. The problem is most “restoration” jobs, even the professional ones, look fake, ..artificial. You simply cannot make an old lamp look like it just came out of the box from the factory. I think you are much better off learning to appreciate the lamp for its true value as an accurate representation of what lamps looked like in service on the railroad! That white stripe on the door doesn’t look like an accidental paint drip to me. My guess is that it is a marking of some kind that was intentionally painted on the lamp to serve some identification purpose. If you remove it or paint over it you will destroy another historical aspect of the lamp. You may never know why that white stripe is there; but that ads to the mystic of the piece. -- Know this; if you had two identical lamps you were selling, this one in its current weathered condition and one that had been beautifully repainted; I’d pay you much more for the old weathered one than the repainted one! -- Clear K-1 kerosene is the correct fuel. You can also use high quality lamp oil, though it is not as bright as the K-1. --- Use nothing other than those two!! --- Try cleaning that old wick with a good soaking in WD-40 and then washing it by working dish detergent through it with your fingers and rinsing well in warm running water; drying thoroughly afterwards. -- Was it a retirement gift?; probably not! Most items like that lamp which employees ended up with “walked off the property” under somebody’s jacket when no one was looking. Many were “liberated” from railroad service by railfans under the cloak of darkness. -- Feel free to ask any additional questions, and Thanks for the great photos, that really helps!! ---- .... Red Beard  Posted Thursday, January 2, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Red Beard, Thank you very much of the great and detailed answers and explanations. I had over looked the legs going to the vent cone. I think you are right on as for the mfg. date in the teens, there are two wax sealed inspection labels inside, one f them has a date that looks like, inspected on July 29, 1918, which might be the manufacture date? The wax is thick and dark which makes it hard to read. I am attaching a pictures of the inside. I will take your advise and forgo any restoration. I have already had this for several months and have not repainted, wanted to take my time and find out what is best. I agree with you, once it is painted it cannot be undone. I hadn't considered the white paint on the back to be an indicator or put there for a reason, but it does give it character, as does the chipped paint. After considering what you said about the color, the Adlake lamps I have seen repainted, just do not look that good, they do look kind of artificial. As for the wick, I will try to clean it as suggested, but there is only about 4 or 5 in. of it left. The reason I ask about the fuel is it seems to burn with a lot of soot. If I let it burn very long it will get the inside very dirty. Are modern wicks as good as the old? Again, Thanks for your help,  Link 1  Posted Monday, January 6, 2014 by Grant

A. W.T. Kirkman { http://www.lanternnet.com/ } LINK 1 is a source for new wicks. His will work as good as an original. The wick must be exactly the right size for the burner or it will cause problems. --NOTE: if the wick is oversized, it will bind and you will strip the toothed cog that advances the wick off of the stem and you won’t be able to turn the wick up or down any more!!!-- Four or five inches will last you a long time for the amount of use you will likely give the lamp. Thanks for the additional photos! Yes, you can really see that smoke! ...you have the wick turned up too high. You only need a short ridge of flame along the edge of that burner; a tall triangular flame like that is way too much. Less than half, maybe a third, of the flame as pictured would be plenty. That should solve the smoking issue. If you want you could carefully trim the burnt edge of the wick (if it is burnt and crusty). Try trimming just a sixteenth of an inch or less off with very sharp scissors. Keep the trimmed edge absolutely 90° square with the wick. -- WHAT Ever you do... preserve the interior of that lamp just as it is!!! -- those inspection stickers are very rare and the ones in your lamp are in very good condition, considering they are almost a hundred years old!!. ..I’m guessing that may be some sort of a varnish rather than a wax, BUT don’t mess with it to try to find out!! Yes, that dates the manufacture of the lamp, it was from the final factory inspection before it was crated and shipped. In later years Adlake stopped putting those in lamps, though I don’t know when. --- That fuel pot is unusual as well as it looks like it is brass; those are rare too. DON’T clean that pot up either as it has a very nice, natural patina. Look at that filler cap on the oil pot; there is a pin hole in the center of it. That hole is there to relieve the vacuum in the pot as the kerosene is burned and used up. It keeps the needed vacuum relief air from entering the pot through and around the wick, which causes sputtering problems with the flame. That might be a replacement cap. Some came with a factory made hole in them, many had a venting hole put in them by whoever maintained the lamp to make them burn better. Occasionally you will find a small wedge shaped slit in the cap, made with someone’s pocket knife. Besides being a vent hole, a slit like that also served as a socket, so the cap could be removed by sticking the knife blade in there like a screwdriver. -- That lamp is truly a great find and I’m glad that you are open to the idea of keeping it as original as you can. ---- .... Red Beard  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, January 8, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2682 Vesta Lantern  I have an old Vesta Lantern marked C.C.C. & St.L. The last patent date is Dec 18, 1910, below that is S-8-25 or maybe 26-28, spot of corrosion on the last number. The reason I am asking is that is one I have never another one of. It has a bail that flips up and over the handle mount to fix the handle in an upright position. I think I got it with the early globe (raised lip on top) that is marked NYCL. Any info would be welcome to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks.  Posted Wednesday, January 1, 2014 by JH   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  The CCC&St.L.(aka the Big Four Route) was leased by the New York Central in 1930. I am looking at my Vesta which is marked C.C.C.& St.L. Ry. on the top and has a cast in lettered New York Central globe made by Corning with the CNX trade mark. The globe does not have the lip on top like many Vesta globes have and is just bell shaped. My lantern also has the Dec. 18,1910 patent date and the production date is S 8-27. The "S" stands for the Dietz Syracuse plant and 8-27 is August of 1927. Vesta's of this age came with a smooth side fount,although it is not uncommon to find the fount has been replaced with the more modern serrated edge fount. My lantern is the short version which is about 10.5 inches tall. The bale is bent in a rectangular loop on each end so that it can be locked into the upright position and that is standard on all of the Vesta's which I have. Link 1 is for the Wikipedia article on the Big Four Route and Link 2 is for the Vesta page fromm the Railroadiana library. There is also an article titled "Vesta Valhalla" in the Library which goes into depth about the many variations that occurred over the years of production.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Sunday, January 5, 2014 by KM

 Q2681 Purple lantern globes or marker lenses. (No sun purple glass please)  If anyone has any of these in their collection please write in and explain their characteristics. Thank you.  Posted Wednesday, January 1, 2014 by Keith   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Some RR's used a purple lens in switch lanterns to indicate a derail. Posted Thursday, January 2, 2014 by BK

A. Yes we know the use. It was also used sometimes to mark camp cars along with amber, but what was it's actual color. Was it really purple or was it a deep cobalt with a magenta or cyan overlay? Keith Posted Friday, January 3, 2014 by Keith

A. To DJB. Thank you very much for all the trouble you went thru testing all these lenses. It is a wealth of information and will be used later. Thank you Keith Posted Monday, January 6, 2014 by Keith

A. Purple or Cobalt with an overlay? --- Neither! --- I have several “PURPLE” switch lamp lenses, whole, chipped and broken. They are a beautiful deep cobalt blue glass through and through; ..no overlay. We need to kick this up to someone at a University Physics Department who knows Photometry (the science of how light is perceived by the human eye.) and get some ideas as to why the light passing through these Cobalt Blue lenses is perceived as PURPLE to the observer a few dozen yards from the lamp. ---- OF NOTE: ---- Somewhere (I think in this site’s library section) there is mention that both Purple & Lunar had to be of a slightly different color formulation if used with an electric light source rather than a kerosene flame. All other colors could be used interchangeably with either kerosene or electric illumination. ..To me, this seems mean that there were Purple and Lunar lenses for use with kerosene and slightly different colors of Purple and Lunar to be used with electric lit lamps. -- DJB; did you ever run into Purple lenses marked specifically for use with electric bulbs or kerosene?? I have not. --- ..this is further confused by the fact that there were switch lamp lenses optically designed to focus the fuzzy, nickel (5 cent coin) sized light source of a burning flame (most standard Fresnel lenses) and special ones which were optically designed to focus the much smaller light source of an incandescent element. -- ..yet one more item: Older WRRS lamps used very special glass Fresnel lenses which were marked “Electric” at the top, which have a faint waffle pattern on the front surface; vaguely reminiscent of that waffle pattern on a Stimsonite plastic switch lamp lens (but very, very faint on the WRRS glass lenses.) ---- .... Red Beard Posted Monday, January 6, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Hello Keith and Red. I have never run into any versions of a purple lens other than the kerosene version and those made for kero use were never marked as such , to my memory,with either a molded wording or a notation on the inspection stickers.I personally have not seen the electric version of a purple lens but I am quite certain they were used, as many lines had battery lamps,low voltage electric lamps and converted kerosene lamps,all of which may have used the electric version.Since railroads were so economy minded,they probably used up any lenses they had on hand and may never of actually used the electric versions.As long as we are on the subject of purple railroad lenses,I did spend some time with one of my kero switchlamps,and tried 5 variations of kero purple lenses in it and observed them all,in the dark,while lit.I used a 1905 patent Corning,a 1935 version Corning, a Kopp glass,old, Dioptric version and a later Kopp glass version,1960's era, and all were optical type.I did also use one Corning Spredlite version with the narrow ribs.I used all 5 in the same lamp ,with the same burner,longtime chimney,and real kerosene and only had to rotate the lamp to bring the next lens into focus.The older Corning 1905, and older Kopp Dioptric had a very pronounced redish ring around the outer edge of the lens.The later Kopp and Corning 1935 lens were more purple with much less of a redish cast and finally,the Spredlight lens had virtually no red cast to it.What I am more interested in hearing about,is how you actually can differentiate between a blue lens and a purple lens,when they are unlit and don't have their inspection stickers intact.They sure look very much alike to me.That's why Corning used to etch the word blue or purple on the edge of their lenses and roundels in their earlier productions,to avoid mixups.Here are my last thoughts before leaving.Is it possible that the glass mfrs finally changed their formula to make both blue and purple look the same, and at the same time,eliminate the redish cast ? Or did they maybe eliminate the kero and electric glass tints and settle on only one version? Has anyone seen a lens inspection sticker with the word BLUE on it? I have not.DJB Posted Monday, January 6, 2014 by DJB

A. I am working with Kopp and have e-mailed Corning. When I eventually talk to the right person I may solve some of the mystery with the information they send. In preceving what the human eye sees is not how a color is named. It is the wavelength, light color spectrum and what other colors in the spectrum it blocks out, I.e. Reds, yellows, greens, blue greens etc. I have colors named lavender, lite purple but actually look cobalt. That marked purple lens probably has a hint of red to it in the infrared spectrum which the eye cannot see. Keep the answers coming please. Thank you Keith Posted Monday, January 6, 2014 by Keith

A. DJB I checking on the stickers and looking at different examples, purple tested seems to be the only inspection sticker listed with a color. All the others regardless of color only had the letters tested AAR 69-59. The color being obvious met the standards of the railroad. Purple being the only color that was confusing was marked as purple tested. There seems to be no sticker as blue tested. I will look into this further. Keith Posted Thursday, January 9, 2014 by Keith

A. Hello again Keith. As far as inspection stickers go on railroad lenses,I can attest to the the fact that the words LUNAR WHITE or sometimes just LUNAR were also printed on the inspection stickers of both Corning and Kopp signal lenses and semaphore roundels. I have actually seen these stickers on unused lenses in material warehouses and maintainers' parts stock. Good luck with your information requests with Corning and Kopp glass companies.I hope they still have some of their past ordering and manufacturing records to draw from.Engineering notes would be great too.DJB Posted Thursday, January 9, 2014 by DJB

A. DJB and Red Beard, Look up French Railroad signals SNCF France, Carre' Violet. Now that's purple. Purple in France means the same as red but for trains on side rails. Called Kopp, absolutely no help, did not know records. I am sure they are there if someone would look. Thank you Keith Posted Sunday, January 19, 2014 by Keith

A. DJB, A few days ago I had the seller check the lens carefully and that's when he found the words purple. I am looking at it if bidding does not go crazy. Now compare with the web sites on Carre Violet. Thank you for the added info. Keith Posted Monday, January 20, 2014 by Keith

A. Keith and Red, here is an example of a purple glass lens that was used in an electric colorlight signal.It would have been used in conjunction with a clear Fresnel/optical outer lense.This particular lens is a Corning 1935 design and also has the word PURPLE marked on it as I was mentioning in an earlier reply.The owner mentions this marking in a later description change.It is running on EBAY currently and can be seen listed under item # 251426870458. This lens would be an electric color tint if there was an actual separate tint.The BLUE lenses also had the word etched or marked on them to avoid a mixup with possibly bad consequences. DJB Posted Monday, January 20, 2014 by DJB

A. Keith,I spent some time looking on the French Railway signaling site at the carre' violet signal aspects.Boy,do they have a complicated signal system with many aspect combinations.I am glad I am not writing their rules examination and I took dozens of them while working.I must say that their shade of violet/purple is not the same as the US AAR color but it is very distinctive.The lenses I tried are partially violet but tend to go reddish around the outer 3/4 inch possibly because of the edge area being thicker glass ? When you have a little time, look at EBAY item 161204831337 lunar lense and it will illustrate what I talked about in an earlier email about lense color ID tags.I am mostly happy because my memory is still intact after many years of jamming it with useless details about the signaling profession.DJB Posted Thursday, January 23, 2014 by DJB

A. DJB, I have tried a true purple glass lense, not railroad, and light was almost blackened out. Red and blue which makes purple will cut out almost all wavelength colors almost like a black light but stronger. the French lights have the megenta coloring (cyan) to allow the red thru and mix with a little blue to cause violet as seen by the human eye. I have a cobalt looking globe which is very dark, much darker than other cobalts. I think this is also a US railroad purple it is in a Handlan wrecking crew lantern.I think there are so called purple globes out there only we have been looking for the wrong form of the color purple. Keith Posted Thursday, January 23, 2014 by Keith

A. Keith, Does your deep cobalt or possibly purple globe allow much light to pass through it when lit ? The actual aspect must be very limited in viewing distance. Did you know that there were also H-2 and SA signal mechs that were equipped with purple filters ? They gave a good medium distance aspect but also had a very powerful optical system and used either a 10v-18w or 10v-25w signal precision bulb.They were mostly used for special restrictive speed aspects chosen by the RR when they wanted to reserve lunar white for mainline restrictive speed moves.It would also seem to me that a purple or blue lantern globe would show a somewhat different color than a blue or purple optical lense that bent and concentrated the color of the flame.Do I gather from your research now that blue and purple signal lenses are 2 distinct colors when applied to US signaling? Thanks for all your comments and remarks too.DJB Posted Friday, January 24, 2014 by DJB

A. DJB, Naturally I have to do more checking. Color wise, so far, a lense is naturally cut different for light distribution. Lantern globes have the Fresnel type which distributed light better than a standard globe. It seems that both cobalt and purple are very close. The purple being a darker blue of course except for a coating or a mixture in the glass which can block out the red spectrum as in cobalt or allow the red spectrum to pass thru as in purple, naturally Irving it it's color. I have to check this better and maybe get some of my own spectrum readings. I also noticed Railroad Companies asked when ordering, "is this for an incandescent bulb or kerosene". Maybe a different coating? If pure purple were used, no light would pass as all spectrums from ultra violet to I far ed would be blocked. If you noticed, the French purple is a violet with a definite cyan color present to allow light in the red spectrum to pass, giving the violet color. US Railroads were different and worked more in the blue spectrum. Therefore the colors are not distinct but differ slightly and are recognizable. I will have to analyze much further. Thank you Keith  Posted Wednesday, February 5, 2014 by Keithk

 Q2680 Pyle National Lamps  Does anyone have any information on a 'PYLE NATIONAL CHANNEL NAVIGATION OR RAILROAD MARKER LANTERN / LAMP?' I never heard of this brand. Did they make just railroad lamps?  Posted Monday, December 30, 2013 by JH   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Pyle made a variety of heavy duty lamps for RR,industrial and marine use.The are still in business. Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by BK

A. As noted above Pyle National heavy-duty electrical products are widely used in heavy industry, ranging from locomotive headlights, steam locomotive turbine generators, explosion-proof conduit, boxes, lamps and floodlights and other fittings of all kinds used in mines, grain elevators, chemical plants, oil drilling rigs, etc etc, as well as railroads and ships.  Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by RJMc

A. I took a look at the lamp in question on eBay. It is an electric Pyle-National Railroad Marker Lamp, though it is missing the indexing mounting bracket which clamped around the base, just above the bellbottom flare. This style is less common than the Adlake counterpart. They do show up on steam engine tenders, cabooses and in passenger service if you look closely at old slides and photos. This is a classic case of an on line seller having little knowledge about an item they are selling. General line antique dealers can’t know everything and this seller threw out some good guesses to make sure interested buyers would catch it in their search. ..this is a much better practice than some engage in when they make wild and unsubstantiated claims and statements about an item! The lamp has been repainted, but is in good condition and is a nice piece, ..be nicer if it still had that mounting bracket ring on the base though.---- .... Red Beard  Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. I appreciate your help Red Beard. Many of us who are new to the hobby of collecting railroad lamps need help navigating through the good and bad assortment out there. One area in particular that I am amazed is how many lamps have mis-matched or incorrect lenses while still asking (and sometimes getting) so much money.  Posted Wednesday, January 1, 2014 by JPH

A. JPH; You are welcome! ...I always appreciate hearing back from someone who posted the original question. - I’m always happy to comment on items currently up for sale on the net. It gets others a chance to look at a piece they may never see a photo of again and learn about a few details they may not have noticed. It also helps clarify the lamps use and origin. I think it helps get the lamp into the hands of someone who will truly appreciate it and gives the ultimate buyer valuable historical information about their new acquisition. I study the photos on eBay all the time and constantly learn new things from those photos I had not previously realized. It seems that there was an unbelievable amount of variation in railroad lamps; many common ones and a trickle of oddities that keep surfacing. -- Yes there are a lot of cobbled together pieces made up of mismatched parts and lenses, BUT, you can always wait for a correct part or lens to show up and bid on that to complete / correct your lamp. -- it is an odd market. I’ve seen some very desirable items go for half what I thought they would and way incorrect ‘Franken-lamps’ go for twice what I thought they’d fetch. -- I keep griping on here about collectors who want to ‘restore’ an old lamp and try to make it look ‘new’. An old, weathered, sooty lamp is a much better bet if you want something actually original to railroad use and not pieced together out of a parts bin. ---- .... Red Beard Posted Wednesday, January 1, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2679 Lamp Identification  Could you please identify the railroad light in the attached photo. How old is it? Thanks.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, December 30, 2013 by Lee   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This is a carraige side lamp, not RR Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by BK

A.  It is a carriage lamp. There were many, many manufacturers of carriage lamps, and a lot of them did not put their name on the lamps. Most of those companies used burners that were made by a few well known companies and the wick raising knobs usually have the manufacturer's name on them. That is one way to determine the age because over the years they changed the lettering and information on the knobs. Unfortuneatly your lamp has been "electro-cuted" and the kerosene burner has been removed. A quick check through "Lanterns That Lit Our World", books One and Two did not show this carriage lamp.  Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by KM

 Q2678 PRR Lantern  I got this lantern as a gift. It comes with a very nice story, however I seem to think it is a fake. The bottom is marked 'PROPERTY OF PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD'. There are no other markings I can find. The person that bought it in Florida was lead to believe it is the real deal. Feel free to set the record straight. Thanks as always,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, December 30, 2013 by MC   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. FAKE Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by BK

A.  Yaeh, sorry to say, it is a fake that was probably produced overseas around 1980. I remember seeing these in flea markets in the Cleveland area back then. Yours has weathered with a lot of patina either by being left out or intentionally by exposure to chemicals like sulphuric acid fumes. Some of the fake lanterns were also marked Central Union Pacific which never was a railroad name. The link is for the Fake and Reproduction Lantern page in the Library and these lanterns are shown there. Many railroads used barnyard style lanterns at highway crossings during construction and they may have been marked with the railroad initials. It is known that the PRR had some of those,but they did not spell out the whole railroad name. Link 1  Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by KM

A.  Here is another link to W.T.Kirkman Co.s website at www.lanternnet.com. Their Fakes, Frauds and Forgeries page shows these also. They even mention that there are holes in the air tubes that are unusual and I can see a hole in yours at the top of one of the tubes. Too bad that the Grinch visited you for Xmas! Link 1  Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by KM

A. Thanks for the info. You were able to confirm my thoughts. It is a shame that the person that bought it was told an out & out lie. Posted Wednesday, January 1, 2014 by MC

 Q2677 Brass Switch Lamps and Markers  There have been quite a few brass plated switch lamps and markers offered on the market recently. They have the correct manufacturer’s markings i.e, Adlake, Armspear as well as patent plates. The stories range from being trade show models to certain collectors who brass plated what they owned. I’ve wondered if they perhaps came from the old Victoria’s Station restaurants. What do you make of these ; is there a risk these are being copied and manufactured new somewhere ?  Posted Monday, December 30, 2013 by WB   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. I don't know about the others, but Hanlan made brass switch lamps that were electrified for home use in a last gasp attempt to stay in business in the 1980's. As to the others, anyone can get a switch lamp brass plated. Adlake is the only lamp manu still in business. Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by BK

A. Victoria’s Station restaurant! ..boy, that’s a name I haven’t heard in a while. As I recall, Victoria’s Station restaurants were more British themed on the inside though, and I don’t know if they used any old American railroad lamps; ..did they??? In the late 1960s and early ‘70s, Railroad Theme Restaurants were quite popular around the U.S. , most being American Railroadiana themed. There were also many private, non-chain, one of a kind, rail theme restaurants. Omaha had two of those, but no Victoria’s, the closest one being in Kansas City’s old Fruit Market area. - At the time there was an abundance of retired railroad equipment available; not only lamps and lanterns but complete railroad cars, both freight and passenger. You could buy box cars and passenger coaches with the trucks and all brake rigging intact for about 5 cents a pound; the scrap value at the time. (seriously!!) -- The Brass Plated lamps you are seeing for sale are real, original, old lamps that have been plated after they left the railroad --- I’ve mentioned the Great Union Pacific Annex Building Sale on here several times. In the early 1970s the U.P. pulled in all their kerosene lamps and lanterns system wide and brought all of them to the Annex Building down by Omaha Union Station and sold them in lots that averaged $5 per lamp or lantern to a group of antique dealers that had been invited to the sale (a by Invitation Only event, by the way). Nationwide, other railroads had eliminated kerosene lighting as well and Switch Lamps were common as dirt at the time and there was a low demand for them as a result. Many of the aforementioned Railroad Theme Restaurants grabbed them up by the dozens and designed their theme interior décor around them. -- Indeed, some of these lamps in restaurants ended up being plated, though most I saw were merely cleaned up or given a shot of black Rust-Oleum out of a spray can. -- Some owners of operating Private Railroad Cars had Marker Lamps plated to make them look elegant. --- BUT, I think the majority of Brass, Copper, Bronze and the occasional Nickel plated Switch Lamps and Marker Lamps are from private railroadiana collectors who had them plated after they had been ‘liberated’ from their original owners (the railroads). --- In the 1960s, Brass and Bronze plating of Switch lamps and Marker Lamps was sort of a high end niche among some collectors. I thought one would look cool too; I remember calling around to a number of plating shops in the Omaha area with little luck. All they wanted to do were car bumpers. Apparently, Switch Lamps were considered a “real pain” by plating shops as all the “tinning” had to be removed before the steel body could be plated. (I believe Switch Lamps were actually ‘Terne-plated’, ; that is, hot dipped in a mixture of tin and lead). I finally found a shop in Des Moines that would do the job, but they wanted a small fortune to do it, so I abandoned the idea. However; somewhere, there were shops that were more than willing to plate Switch Lamps as they were very popular back in the day! --- Are there currently produced ‘knock-offs’? -- NO!! -- If you have some advanced skill at working sheet metal, you could make a pretty good looking Kero style hand lantern in your basement; in fact there are apparently some new ‘re-creation’ knock-off lanterns out there that look more or less like real railroad hand lanterns (but can be recognized by experienced collectors as fakes). -- Switch Lamps, etc. are a whole different story; They are made of much heavier gauge sheet metal and the various parts and sub-assemblies need to fit together very precisely; and as a result require a manufacturing process that entails pretty extensive precision shop equipment to create. The return on making ‘fakes’ would nowhere near cover the cost of shop setup. --- There are NO reproduction Switch Lamps, period! ...nor will there ever be, the setup and manufacturing process would just be too expensive for such a limited market. ---- “Trade Show Samples?” - Again, NO! - ; here are two things you need to remember about MOST antique dealers and eBay sellers: 1) they know absolutely nothing about railroads and rail related hardware. 2) they will lie through their teeth in order to get the most money they can out of an item they are trying to sell! -- If you look closely at the photos, the brass plated alleged “Trade Show Sample” lamps, under the brass plating, are always heavily pitted from rusting. That level of pitting is the result of years of service out in the elements. No manufacturer would take an old lamp that had been in service for years and have it plated and then use it as a sample for a trade show; for what purpose??, when they could take a brand new lamp right off the assembly table and plate it??? -- Moreover; I would be quite surprised if there were any “Trade Shows” to begin with. Railroad executives of the era worked 10 - 12 hours a day, six and seven days a week; they didn’t have the luxury of going to “trade shows” - Sales men traveled to their customers and were lucky to get 10 minutes of an executive’s time. Under those circumstances, the salesman would want to show the exec a brand new lamp in the actual production finish (not brass plate) and point out how well that factory finish would hold up in actual use out in the elements. I’d stake my collection on the idea that there were never any ‘brass plated sales men’s samples’, ever, anywhere! -- I’ve never seen a lamp actually made of brass or copper either; all having been steel that was plated. ----- A note on HANDLAN --- The real Handlan company, the one that designed and manufactured lamps and lanterns and supplied the railroads, for all practical purposes, ceased to exist in the early 1960s. It was sold to a new owner who attempted to streamline the product line, dropping all but a few products and destroying all of the designs and patterns and historical records of all other items the company had produced over the decades; an absolute tragedy! When that new owner realized there was no real market for lamps and lanterns in the railroad industry anymore, they sold to a very nice couple whose actual original intention was to make lamps and sell them to the collector / hobby market and what was left of the real railroad demand. So; what BK refers to was not actually a “last ditch effort” by Handlan, but rather two people who purchased what was left of the old Handlan line with the intention of running a profitable small business selling to what was left of the railroad demand for Switch Lamps and also decorator / collector items, which they did successfully for about ten years. (as small businesses go, that wasn’t a bad run for them). They were the ones who ran Rail Finders and who made Brass and Bronze plated Handlan Lamps as decorator items. (always brass/bronze plate over steel; never solid brass or bronze) These were made of relatively thin sheet metal, but their actual Railroad service lamps were made of very thin metal as well. Those actual railroad service lamps were made of pre-galvanized sheet metal and were not hot dipped in ‘terne’ after assembly. ---- .... Red Beard ; © 2013, Red Beard the Railroad Raider Posted Tuesday, December 31, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. Sorry, Red Beard, but I think your strong statement that there are no reproduction switchlamps needs a little bit of discussion. I believe some were made, possibly using Handlan tooling. I have occasionally run across lamps marked "SCOTT LOS ANGELES", similar to the "HANDLAN St. LOUIS" stamping, on electrified swithlamps. Their red and green unmarked plastic lenses are also a little off in their color aspects. I know nothing about the company, only that the lamps look similar to Handlan, but with a somewhat unique lens hood. I've also seen them with day targets as well. The few I've seen had no mounting sockets for putting them on a switch stand and most were open bottom swag lamps. None of the half dozen or so I've seen of these give any indication of actual railroad service or have had founts/burners. I recall B&O RR and Santa Fe markings. I also saw one embossed "UNION PACIFIC" on the top of the lamp instead of "SCOTT LOS ANGELES". Perhaps I'm mistaken, but from the characteristics of these lamps, I suspect they are authentic looking reproductions for the hobby market. Hopefully someone knows for sure and has a little more info. Posted Thursday, January 2, 2014 by JFR

A.  Hey JFR, thanks for bringing that up. -- I have seen photos of those SCOTT lamps as well as ones with Union Pacific on the cap, and have always believed them to be a resurection of the old Handlan line with some new lettering added; pretty much what Handlan was selling as their Rail Finders decorator light series. In fact, I seem to remember that Handlan was stamping some of their caps with railroad names on their decorator line instead of "Handlan St Louis". Handlan still sold actual switch lamps at the time too (1980s) and I do know that they would put an original / authentic looking stamped tag on an actual switch lamp with any railroad name / initials you requested. The joke at the time was that they’d make up a tag with your dog’s name on it and slap it on a switch lamp for you if you asked them to, (and paid a little extra). The Rail Finders Handlans also had cheap plastic Fresnel lenses that were an off color, especially the green ones. -- I think we are both heading in the same direction with suspecting that the SCOTT ones are the old Handlan line and made with their old patterns. ..as such, we may be mincing words in calling them “reproductions” or not, if they are being made with the original Handlan tooling and manufacturing equipment. -- When I claim that there are no “Knock-Off or Reproduction” Lamps, I am referring to ones made up from scratch, wholly from new patterns. The process of tooling up and creating the metal forming equipment would be just too expensive. Those flimsy, cylindrical body, open bottom Handlan-esq lamps are much easier to make than a heavy gauge metal Adlake 1112 lamp or an Armspear, which WB was originally asking about. ---- .... Red Beard  Posted Thursday, January 2, 2014 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2676 Platform Lamp  I was wondering if anyone out there has any information on the Dressel platform lamp in the picture. I just purchased a pair of these and was looking for a picture of them being used. Any information regarding these lamps or a picture of them in use is greatly appreciated. Thanks,   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, December 30, 2013 by Jerry   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. After much research found out it is a dressel no. 57 Belgian railroad platform lamp....I have restored a pair of these. Attached is a post-restoration pic. Link 1  Posted Saturday, February 15, 2014 by Jerry

 Q2674 Reinstalling Day Targets on a Switch Lamp  I always have problems when trying to reinstall day targets back on switch lamps that I have disassembled. Is there some TRICK that I am not aware of to getting these back on easily...any help greatly appreciated....thanks.  Posted Saturday, December 21, 2013 by Jerry   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. When I wrote the above, I was picturing mounting just the lens, not with the day target. But I think the same basic method will work; its just a little trickier getting the band clamp to grip with the flange on the day target in there too and with more limited room to work.  Posted Sunday, December 22, 2013 by RJMc

A. thanks for all the info...will give it a try...jerry Posted Sunday, December 22, 2013 by jerry

A. I presume that the difficulty is that the slightly U-shaped band clamps that hold the lenses to the body will not seat properly? So they won't allow you to get the short bolts and their square nuts in place, before it all 'pops off' and you have to start over?? A suggestion is start with a longer machine screw / bolt than is really needed - maybe ones with hex heads rather than a straight screwdriver head - so you can begin to pull everything together using a ratchet or a nutdriver rather than the straight screwdriver (which always slips out....). Once the band is pulled in and the lens is seated, you can hold it together in place and substitute the final bolt and nut. If holding the lens in place is a problem, consider twisting a piece of very fine wire (bag twist ties are a good source of this) around the two brackets on the clamp while you switch the bolts to the original short ones. Hope this helps.  Posted Sunday, December 22, 2013 by RJMc

A. If all the original parts were there to begin with,especially in the case of Adlake lamps,there should have been 4 metal U bands,very similar to the regular drawbands,but minus the clamping ears to hold the nut and bolt.These bands would be put in place to hold only the lens and gasket and fit in place quite snugly.Then you would add the day target and regular drawband and tighten it up with the nut and bolt.I would say that over 75% of the Adlake lamps are missing these original equipment bands,thus creating the assembly problems you talk about.I can't really say if the other mfrs used these internal bands but Adlake did,at least until the 60's.If you compare the outer bands that hold the day targets,you will also note that they are made somewhat wider,in order to hold the day target plus the inner band that mounted the lens and gasket to the body.Other long time collectors will know what I am referring to,plus the fact I was working for a class 1 railroad when these lamps and parts were still in use and have a lot of practical knowledge about them.DJB Posted Sunday, December 22, 2013 by DJB

A. Sometimes flipping the ring on the opposite way will help. The longer screw mentioned above is one of the best tricks or experiment swapping different rings with different targets to get the right fit. Usually if inside bands were originally there and are now missing you'll have the opposite problem, loose rings. Posted Monday, December 23, 2013 by JFR

A. The Link is to the 1940's illustrated Adlake lamp catalog in the archives elsewhere here on the RRiana site. It has the parts list for a square-top switch lamp and indicates that a variety of coupling rings (their formal term for the clamping bands) were used according to the application, as indicated by DJB above. Unfortunately, the cutaway illustratio shows the lamp assembled, so you can't really see how the rings fit together with the housing..... Link 1  Posted Monday, December 23, 2013 by RJMc

A. The first link below is to another Adlake illustration from the archives, which has a table of the parts for a switch lamp making clear there is an 'inner ring' as well as a 'special' clamping band when day targets are to be used. The similar Handlan illustration (from 1956) of lamp replacement parts in the archives (second link below) does not make the same distinction; apparently they just used one type of clamping band.  Link 1  Link 2  Posted Monday, December 23, 2013 by RJMc

A. There were various sizes of rings from all the manufactures. The marker and class lamps usually used the skinny ones, the wider ones on lamps with hoods or day targets and then the were various fat ones for reflex lamps with the thick glass lenses. The mixing of parts done by reclamation shops and collectors has brought us to this discussion. While the Adlake bulletin shows the range of sizes and thicknesses for that particular lamp, in some other lantern/lamp catalogs, Adlake included, I've observed a single part number for the all rings with a request for the purchaser to specify the particular size of ring that was needed.  Posted Tuesday, December 24, 2013 by JFR

 Q2672 'BR' Lantern Marking  I have a Dressel Arlington N.J. Lantern. It also has (BR) stamped on the Top of it. What does (BR) stand for?  Posted Friday, December 20, 2013 by MN   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A.  Ooops, I didn't have my coffee yet when I put in the reply above,the Burlington Route did not merge with the UP. The CB&Q merged with the Great Northern, the Northern Pacific and the Spokane, Portland and Seattle in 1970 and the result was the Burlington Northern. The BN and the Santa Fe merged and that became the BNSF.  Posted Saturday, December 21, 2013 by KM

A.  It is probably Burlington Route which was the shortened name that the Chicago, burlington and Quincy used before they merged with the Union Pacific. If it is a short globe Dressel hand lantern and not a switch lamp then the Lantern Surveys page shows that Dressel lanterns were used by the CB&Q. See the link for the Lantern Survey page that is elsewhere on this website. There are several other questions posted in the Archives about the BR marking as opposed to the CB&Q marking see Q 2350, 1863 and 1836.  Link 1  Posted Saturday, December 21, 2013 by KM

 Q2670 Orange Globes  I've been noticing a few of these 'orange' colored short globes turning up and I'm wondering is this a 'yellow' signal color? I know that amber colored ones are considered yellow in signal terms but I'm not sure what to think of these.   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Monday, December 16, 2013 by WEM   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Remember that globes (and various lenses) are partially corrected color-wise in order to transmit the proper color thru the glass from the yellow flame of kerosene. That's why green globes often look more blue than green (and are mistaken as such) but still signal pure green when a yellow flame passes through them. If I remember art class....blue and yellow mixed together make green. Posted Wednesday, December 18, 2013 by TE

A. The color amber is a pure chroma color, located on the color wheel midway between yellow and orange. This would suggest it's neither yellow or orange. So a yellow or orange globe could be referred to as amber& probably was on the RR.. Link 1  Posted Wednesday, December 18, 2013 by GR

A. Thank you for your input TE, I am aware of the color corrections you're speaking of and when lit and in the dark the flame does look amber/yellow. A couple of fellow lantern collectors were wondering why these were so dark an orange color when amber would have been sufficient. All of these I've seen so far have been made in Kopp Glass molds ( I understand they still produce them as a novelty item possibly for Adlake and others) and fairly old ones judging by the faintness of the mark in the glass. My hypothesis was that perhaps this is the most recent color Kopp uses for yellow lenses but when blown into a short globe mold comes out a dark orange. Here's a photo at night.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, December 18, 2013 by WEM

A. I have a vague recollection of lanterns with the orange globes being sold new, unused as collectibles at the B&O Museum gift shop; and probably at other similar locations as well, where the RR signalling implications were no longer a consideration. That would have been during the period when C&O, B&O, and later WM were affiliated so those road names would be most likely on the lanterns. In fact you can still buy the lanterns and globes (and all kinds of other interesting stuff) direct from Adlake; see the Link for their website; and the globes listed as 'amber' there look very much like the one you have.  Link 1  Posted Wednesday, December 18, 2013 by RJMc

A. I'm not sure if this helps or adds to the mystery. I've got 4 or 5 Corning yellow short globes and some are marked Adlake Kero. Even these vintage globes range from a paler yellow to deep orange. My 2 yellow Corning Vesta globes vary noticeably as well. In my personal experience, I've never seen a small color test tag on any yellow globes, but I have observed them on vintage Corning blue, green, and red globes. Granted these tags usually didn't survive very long in service, but perhaps there wasn't a tight color spec for yellow lantern globes because the flame was yellow too, hence the yellow variations seen over the years. That's strictly an amateur's guess on my part. I've seen the tags often on yellow lamp lenses, but they have to focus and project their color aspect more precisely and farther than a lantern typically does. Posted Wednesday, December 18, 2013 by JFR

A. According to all the railroad rulebooks I have, amber or orange are never mentioned as a color aspect. It's always yellow. The rulebooks that I have from northeastern railroads. It could be different in other regions, I'd guess they're consistent throughout the country.  Posted Thursday, December 19, 2013 by JFR

A.  ...after posting, I always think of something to add. My further guess is that after the “Orange” color was authorized, railroads would have purchased that color as either a cost saving or if true yellow had been discontinued, and attrition accounts for the fewer number of true yellow globes on the market today. Remember, railroads would make decisions like that to save as little as a few cents per unit! ..that’s how tight they were! ---- .... Red Beard Posted Thursday, December 19, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. I’m going to weigh in on this one. In JFR’s post right above, he makes a good point. Regarding railroad signals; there is only “Yellow”. Now, remember, it wasn’t until the mid 1890s that a formula for yellow glass of useable color and clarity had been created; and then it was still pretty dark and murky, not transmitting that much light. Among more recent acquisitions which I know little about, I have three short Kero globes from back at least into the 1960s that I know the origins of, and know that they are authentic. One is from the UP. It is a beautiful lemon yellow. The other two are very orange and from the D&RGW; so both colors are authentic to late railroad use. From studying eBay over the years, I know that few lemon yellow globes / lanterns come up for sale and that they tend to end up going for significantly more than amber/orange ones. -- My guess is that all this lies in economics. I wouldn’t be surprised if the true yellow glass is more expensive to make than the orange, and out of that, orange globes were authorized and offered as a cost saving measure. Interestingly, I have some KOPP globes (I don't know the history on) that are pretty much the same color as a switch lamp lens; neither orange, nor yellow, but that “Amber”, we always, and incorrectly, refer to. -- Does anyone have an old price sheet for yellow globes?? I'm betting that true yellow was more money than the orange (or "Dark" yellow) -- On this site (Link 1) { http://www.railroadiana.org/library/pgCat_Handlan1918.p } “1918 Handlan Globe Specifications” there is a chart that refers to “Photometric Tests” performed on globes. For Red, Yellow, Blue & Green globes they reference Light, Medium and Dark shades for all four colors. [About.com defines Photometry as follows; “In optics, photometry is the measurement of light's brightness, or luminous intensity. Photometry frequently focuses on the perceived brightness to the human eye. As such, it takes into account the eye's sensitivity to varying degrees of light and focuses primarily on the visible light spectrum.”] -- RSA is the Railway Signal Association. So the 1918 chart refers to their standards. Having said that, I’m not sure what the values in the chart on that page refer to. My guess is that it refers to the measurable amount of light passing through the globe. The more I think about it, the more I believe “Light, Medium & Dark” refers to manufacturing variations, rather than the company actually offering three different shades in each color. Something else to remember here is that this chart is from 1918 when signal glass colors were just being standardized, and even those “standard” colors were a little different from those at the end of the kerosene era in the 1950s & 60s; the older ones being darker and transmitting less light than modern glass. --- I hope someone can find a chart or price list from the 1940s to 1960s so we can see if more than one shade of Yellow was ever offered, and more specifically, at what price differential. -- Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night! ---- .... Red Beard  Link 1  Posted Thursday, December 19, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. By the way, since technology advanced, did railroads give color blindness testing???? The first break thru in testing came from the University of Tokyo in 1917. This was called the Ishihara Color Blindness Test. Then we can add the term Proton Color Blindness, inability to see red and green, throw in some yellow. Railroads changed later to compensate. On and on, a real can of worms. Thank you Keith Posted Saturday, December 21, 2013 by Keith

A. Night vision and penetration of the light in bad weather have to be taken into consideration as technology advanced. Orange will penetrate fog and heavy rain better than yellow or amber and will not disrupt night vision as bad. In the orange color we are getting closer to the infrared color spectrum, I.e. Long wavelength light. Blue is short wavelength, ultra-violet, which reflects off everything and has a short travel distance.Therefor purple/violet was outlawed in 1952 by all the railroads. Try looking at a red light at night then a blue light and see the difference. Later I will be working on a paper covering this from infrared to ultra-violet. Red Beard, I would like you to e-mail me or give me your e-mail address. Thank you Keith Posted Saturday, December 21, 2013 by Keith

A. Hey Keith!, Apologies for not getting back to you a month ago when you asked. Yes! Let’s do get in contact. Sounds like you have really good information! -- I am way behind on my correspondence; .. I owe JeffPo a letter from two months ago too (be sure to check out his excellent rail page { http://www.jeffpolston.com/lantern.htm } (Link 1) --- On here, please say as much as you can about the outlawing of purple / violet. I had not been aware of that previously. Other than Derail lamps, what had it been used for? The subject of possible purple globes came up a few questions ago, Q2639 and you had commented on that question as well. -- We really need to come up with some sort of organized data base on all this in both Compendium and Encyclopedic form, or much of it will be lost to the ages. -- I’m also HUGELY concerned about the accuracy of paint colors on Model Railroad cars!! -- Manufacturers are doing a great historical disservice to future generations by not accurately recreating equipment colors on their models. Future generations will have no idea of what a pre-1960 freight car looked like with all the wonderful, and subtle, shades of browns, yellows reds and grays that existed. Freight cars were truly beautiful to look at!. -- Thanks for writing. ---- .... Red Beard  Link 1  Posted Saturday, December 21, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A. This reply is to Keith.You mentioned the the color purple/violet was outlawed for use by the railroads in 1952.Perhaps I am interpreting your statement incorrectly,but,we were still using purple roundels in what the rulebooks referred to as DOLL mast signals up through the 80's and in more than a few locations.These signals were essentially purple marker lamps,not part of an operating signal mech or semaphore,but rather a lower signal light unit mounted below the operating signal on the same mast ,on a short arm,on the left or right side of the mast,to denote that this particular signal could not be installed directly adjacent to the track it governed, and 1 purple marker denoted that there was one more track that intervened between the live track and where its governing signal actually was mounted. The rulebooks made this quite clear.Physical clearance problems made this signal necessary.Our road used purple and the actual roundels as made by Corning,had the word PURPLE etched on their edge so as not to put a blue roundel in by accident.Another comment on the color purple when used in derail lamps.When these lamps were lit and you stared at the lens for some time,it appeared that the lense had an outer ring of red color to it and the center portion was truly purple,but the colors became blurry after a bit.So,I agree on why they may have wanted to end its use.If any collectors out there have a purple derail lamp,fire it up and see what these lenses look like after a minute or two. Maybe Red Beard will get into this after reading it.He knows my backround in the signal department ( now retired)DJB  Posted Monday, December 23, 2013 by DJB

A. As to colorblindness testing: the RR's more recent repututation for being stodgy or 'behind the times' is often not deserved. As well described above, color perception has been critical to safety on most RR's since before 1900, and colorblindness testing has always been a major component of any of the hiring medical exams. The testing was done with the Ishihara method as well as with illuminated test boxes containing lenses with the same demonstrated, tested optical properties as the lenses in the signals. Many people interested in a RR operating career did not get hired for that one reason alone.  Posted Tuesday, December 24, 2013 by RJMc

A. As I read that in 1952 the ICC outlawed purple as it was then. What you describe, I have seen (only pictures) is probably a better color corrected version. The later purple seems to be blue with a reddish outer hue. The red hue combined with the blue glass give a violet reflection. Red, yellow and blue being the primary colors. Blue is hard to view with the human eye because of its short wavelength, it always appears fuzzy. Look at the blue lights of a police motorcycle, they always appear fuzzy. What I am going to do is have a actual purple lantern globe made, check color correction and work forwards. Look at Jeff Pos B&O lantern with the blue globe which appears purple/violet. Make notes and a few drawings on what you talked about for later reference. Thank you Keith. Posted Sunday, December 29, 2013 by Keith

 Q2668 Lamp Manufacturer in #2355?  What is the manufacturer for the aluminum caboose marker lamp shown in that question? I have seen them on New York Central and Green Bay & Western cabooses from the early 1960's and I am curious about them.  Posted Sunday, December 15, 2013 by CT   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Pyle made them and there were at least 2 others. Posted Monday, December 16, 2013 by BK

A. As more and more roads electrified their cabooses, electric markers became popular as they reduced man hours and materials costs. Kerosene marker lamps needed constant maintenance with cleaning and refueling. Though tiny compared to a kerosene marker lamp, these tennis ball sized electric lights were considerably brighter than a kerosene lamp. ...They also didn’t weigh much and were prone to bouncing out of the mounting bracket. Most roads that used them chose to permanently mount them on all four corners of the caboose by welding a steel tab over the top of the mounting bracket so the lamp could neither bounce out or be removed “without authorization”; cast aluminum can be broken more easily than iron or steel however, and many were “removed without authorization” by breaking the lamp off the side of the car. You will see these for sale frequently with all or part of the mounting leg broken off. The ones in Q2355 are in perfect condition and complete. -- Look at the two “ears” between and just above the lenses. On some earlier Pyle-National lamps, those were drilled out and the lamp was fitted with a brass loop handle; a miniature version of the classic Pyle-National Classification Lamp handle. ---- For some reason Pyle-National cornered the market on this style of electric Mini-Marker. The vast majority of Mini-Markers used were from Pyle. -- The Adlake version was cylindrical and the same size but distinctly different in shape and appearance. Very few Adlake ones show up in photos or for sale. -- Who was the other manufacturer??; I’m thinking maybe Handlan. Whoever it was, very, very few can be found and I haven’t run across a photo of one in years. I do have a few Pyle and one Adlake. -- If you look at those NYC photos, you will notice that there are markers on all four corners of the cabooses. The Missouri Pacific (MoP) and the B&O permanently mounted the Pyle lamps on all four corners too. -- For you B&O fans, check out the model photos of the new Spring Mills Depot B&O Cabooses at { http://www.springmillsdepot.com/i-12modelphotos.htm } I was blown away by the tiny Pyle-National Mini Markers on their models!! (LINK 1) ---- .... Red Beard  Link 1  Posted Monday, December 16, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

A.  Re; the Spring Mills Depot Cabooses: - the first eight photos show a marginal representation of an Armspear marker lamp painted yellow, as several eastern roads did. Proportionally, the vent stack and cap are too small in diameter compared to the rest of the lamp. - The Pyle lamps, (very good representation), start with photo 9; Caboose C-2461. ..Then skip down to photo #13, the end shot of blue caboose, C-2808 with the yellow end. Note the plate on the end rails with the four large red dots. Those dots are 5-3/8 inch plastic Stimsonite red reflectors (these were a solid field of reflector prisms and had an opaque backing - not to be confused with the Waffle Pattern Stimsonite lenses for lit lamps,). Again, I’m amazed by the level of detail on these cabooses! ---- .... Red Beard Posted Monday, December 16, 2013 by Red Beard the Railroad Raider

 Q2666 CJR7 Lantern Marking  I have a tall lantern with an unmarked globe. On the top, where the name of the railroad is usually embossed, it carries the mark 'CJR7'. Is this a railroad designation and if so, which line? My thanks.  Posted Friday, December 13, 2013 by PJS   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. Could this actually be CJ RY? If so, it would be Chicago Junction Ry. Posted Thursday, December 19, 2013 by Bob F

A.  If the lantern is an Adlake Reliable the Lantern Surveys page shows that CJ Ry has been reported on both flat and round vertical models that have 1 horizontal wire guard. The link is for the Reliable page in the Lantern Surveys. Send in a photo of the lantern and the marking.  Link 1  Posted Monday, December 23, 2013 by KM

 Q2664 Pyle Light  I got this Pyle National locomotive light Recently and was just curious if anyone would know what era the light is from? It looks to me like a back-up or reverse light from an early diesel. Thanks in advance!   [Click on image for larger version.] Posted Wednesday, December 11, 2013 by Adam   Post a Reply  Email a reply

A. This is in fact the type of light which was used as a back-up light on the back of diesel cab units. However, it is much more likely a much more modern 'ditch light' or 'grade crossing light' -- two of which are installed (by Federal requirement) at deck level on the operating end(s) of all diesel locomotives. When added to the regular high-mounted headlight, these form the bottom two points of the triangle of light which serves as a much more effective indicator for wayside motorists (and employees) of the speed and distance of the oncoming train. In the dark, using only the high-mounted headlight resulted in a single glaring oncoming point of light which was extremely hard to judge for distance and speed. The Canadian railroads at first used these lights as 'ditch lights' aimed somewhat to the side, to enable the enginemen to see rock slides or other hazards in curving mountain territory -- their use is almost universal now in North America as grade crossing lights, but the original terminology is still commonly used. The sealed-beam lamp is a PAR 56 size; and likely to be a 32 or 74 volt 200 watt rating, which will burn out very quickly on 120 house voltage. If you want to light the lamp, try an old-style single automobile headlight bulb; it is likely to fit. Or bulb suppliers can provide other voltages, but they are likely to be expensive.  Posted Wednesday, December 11, 2013 by RJMc